Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

It’s going to happen, and the seeds are already there.

But no, her turn was accelerated at a whirlwind pace on the show that is often difficult to comprehend.

 

In the books I would think Tyrion more capable of mass murder of innocent civilians. He has the wealth and cunning to conceivably gain a lot of power again. He hated the people of King's Landing for how they felt about him even though he was doing stuff like demolishing people's homes. Of course he gains a bit more understanding of common people in DwD, but his anger and cruelty are still there.

 

For such a major plot point, I don't think the books will be different.

The execution of this episode was great.

The idea was horrible, but it will probably be true in the books too. Daenerys has begun having hallucinations. She flies off on Drogon, leaving Meereen behind. She watches her brother's death without empathy. She burns the witch alive. She betrays the owner of the Unsullied and sacks the city. She crucifies random masters in Meereen, and randomly chooses more to feed to her dragons.
And in the show, she's already had to be talked out of burning down her enemies by Tyrion, nevermind what happened with the Khals.

 

I think she watches her brother's death without empathy because she was a victim of his abuse. She later often mourns what she feels her brother once had been, even naming a dragon after him. I don't think the rest are at all examples of "madness"-- her hatred of slavery, her desire for revenge against a woman whom she felt had murdered her husband, the realities of what conquest entails.

And dreams and visions in the books are not hallucinations.

 

Yes, she hasn't fully "fallen," but she's clearly on that path (as are other characters, like Arya).

I think the end for Jaime and Cersei was perfect. They were bad people, but still humans, still sympathetic. Jaime had his arms around her as the life left her body... just not in the way anyone expected. (And that prophecy was never in the show anyways). GRRM wants to show that revenge is not the answer... to want to see Cersei murdered, especially strangled by her own brother, is our own worst impulses, the ones Daenerys gave into. Theon had the redemption arc. Jaime was just a character study, he's still the same person, he never changed at his core.

The episode was beautifully tragic.

 

I don't see Arya as going "mad." I see her reacting to her trauma at a very young age with violent fantasies and aspects of what we would call psychopathy. Anyway I don't think she'll become a cool assassin ninja who gets to go after major people on her kill list.

 

I'm saying Daenerys hasn't "fallen" yet in the books, but she's on the path. Just as Arya hasn't completely fallen yet in the books, but she's on the path. In the show, when Arya comes to the crossroads, she chooses life over revenge. In the show, when Daenerys comes to the crossroads, she chooses revenge over life.

 

I thought this episode was written very well, much better than the previous episodes.

 

Well I hope the books have better progression, even if the story ends in the same way

 

I agree with this take on the episode and the overall story the most out of all things I've read so far this morning. If you're mad that Dany makes that choice, that's what's supposed to happen - you're supposed to get angry, disappointed, and horrified at her decision - as all but her most fervent supporters do on the ground when it all breaks out. If you found yourself crying for Cersei that's what's supposed to happen too. The Starks weren't getting the poignant heartfelt family moment in the end, they never were. Definitely the screen writing took a dive when the TV show diverged from the books, but I don't think Dany going mad is D&D, it's the real story.

 

It's not like the show hasn't completely mischaracterized characters from the book (*cough* Stannis, Littlefinger) before.
And There's too many other important plots- the other heir, Dorne, Lady Stoneheart etc. that the series left out.

 

While I don't give the rumor much credence - the only source is one of the former actors from the show - I noticed today that the story that GRRM has finished the final books and is waiting for the final episode to air to announce this, is making the rounds online today, for some reason.

 

There is still hope.

 

Like I said before, it's been fan[masturbation] for years. "He's going to announce Winds this year after the finale!" Since at least season 5. I think the actor is just parroting that nonsense. I would be happy to be proven wrong of course, but both books being finished is far too outlandish.

 

Wasn't the first major hint about the Red Wedding, a vision of Dany's in the House of the Undying?

 

honestly, if what we're getting in the show is at least the broad strokes of how the books end (and i think that's probably likely), i don't see any way grrm can get us from where adwd left off to there in two books, at least without it coming off as just as rushed as the show. if the pacing is to stay at least somewhat similar to the other books, it would take at least three books to get us there and probably more. especially with all the extra plot threads that don't even exist in the show. it's no doubt part of george's conundrum when he sits down to write, and also goes back to why he wanted to write in the 5 year gap in the first place.

 

Yeah there is no way both books are finished. I would absolutely love for WoW to be done, though.

 

Oh, I know. I was more interested in that it suddenly was making the rounds among newspapers and online blogs today. For all the 'lol GRRM will die no books for you', I'm a big enough Tolkien aficionado to understand that not having a 'finished book' doesn't mean you don't get the story in the end.

From articles today, however, I do love this article, especially after the truly absurd rumors about GRRM 'destroying all his notes'.

 

There was a story making the rounds today that the actor who played Barristan Selmy said at a convention in Russia last month that both TWOW and ADOS were finished and GRRM had a deal with HBO to hold them back. GRRM rather emphatically denied that a little while ago in a blog post, saying TWOW is not finished and ADOS not started.

Amazing.

 

Damn.

 

Of course, denying it is exactly what he'd do if he HAD signed a deal with HBO to hold them back!

There, conspiracy theory restored.

Amazing.