Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

No, no, you've got to go deeper:

GRRM had the finished drafts, but because the actor leaked the deal, he has now destroyed them, and because they were both over a thousand pages long and it's secretly been years even he doesn't remember more than the broad outlines, so now he has to write them again while filling in all the lost details anew. So any evidence that he's still working on drafts? Completely consistent - for the new drafts!

 

I was soo looking forward to the golden company as well... what a waste

 

GRRM is right, though.

Gandalf is a ****ing Maia . Much more powerful than Dumbledore.

Good to see more Bronn shenanigans in the upcoming books.

And good to see GRRM step up to set the record straight. Book 6 isn't finished ; he won't start Book 7 until Book 6 is complete. Case closed.

 

I can definitely see some of the broad strokes for this season coming to pass. Broad strokes of the character arcs, broad strokes of the plot, broad strokes of so many things. But the problem is that D&D are too busy hurrying up the show's finale because they want to go work on Star Wars, so almost everything is falling flat.

Everything is paint-by-numbers "as the plot demands". The ballistas/scorpions are only as powerful as the plot demands. They need to kill a dragon? Get a medieval ballista armada to shoot down a flying reptile over a mile away high in the sky while ignoring all the painful logistics of that decision. The ballistas pivot like on ball bearings, have GPS tracker-level accuracy, can be perfectly calculated to hit such a target with factors like wind and physics affecting them...and it works. Perfectly. Hits the dragon 3 times. And Dany just...forgot the enemy's fleet was a thing. And decided just to fly away on her very slow dragon.

The next episode? Drogon is flying at mach 5 speeds and the ballistas are suddenly too slow and clumsy to take him down and get blasted apart like they were made of matches. Because now the ballistas are now not-useful and must be destroyed.

Much was made of the Northern army--and all the armies, in fact--being too wounded and tired after the battle with the Night King. They don't show up to be useful for Dany for one episode, and suddenly, after a very long, terrible march across the entire continent, they're all pepped up and ready to destroy King's Landing. Because problems like exhaustion or needing time only exist when people need to squabble over them.


None of this feels earned. D&D are just shuffling pieces around the board as fast as they can and checking off the major beats of their spoiler sheet or deciding what they don't and do want to keep and are just trying to get it all done and wrapped up. It's sloppy and lazy and I don't want them touching Star Wars because what if they get bored with a few years of filming a trilogy and decide to Zerg-rush through the last installment?

 

Also, we're all talking about Dany's character arc and whether we feel it was earned, but what about Jaime? They already ran roughshod over his character arc when he ran back to be with Cersei after Riverrun and resumed his relationship with her. He ignored all the horrid things she did--like blow up the Great Sept of Baelor--just to hop back into bed with her.

I put on clown makeup and was the fool for the first 3.8 episodes of this season, though. He FINALLY left Cersei! Maybe they played around with his character arc so he could be fresh off the "redemption" boat for the final season. He spent the first episodes sharing so much chemistry with Brienne and seemed like he was learning the lessons that he learned in the books. Then he decides to run back to Cersei and leave Brienne weeping in the yard.

Everyone shook their heads and clicked their tongues at those of us who knew what this meant. "Silly fools, don't doubt D&D! He's going to King's Landing to kill Cersei, not be with her! You'll see!"

Well, now they're the fools. I lost all my faith in this show and the second Jaime went back to Cersei, I knew how this would end up. Jaime threw away his character arc over the past eight seasons so he could go in a full circle. "I never much cared for innocents", or whatever he said. Hello? The biggest revelation about the man is that his most famous act, his most reviled act that earned him widespread condemnation and contempt...was to save innocents. A million of them. And he just shrugs them off this past episode to be with his murderous, adulterous sister.

He's supposed to move away from her when he finds out her adultery. He'd never been with another woman but her, and he was devastated to find out she just wanted a carbon copy of herself and was fine with sleeping around when it suited her. He just kind of ignores it in the show, among other changes.

Jaime undergoes so much other development in AFFC especially that it pains me to see what he's become in the show. He's kind to Pia and ensures she's taken care of, he defends Brienne's honor when she isn't around, he seriously begins to look at other women. He's still not a perfect person--his threatening of Edmure Tully reveals that--but he's so guilty about it in a way that he never was before. Meeting Brienne and losing his hand were the true start of his character development, and screw this show for messing with Jaime Lannister and ruining him.

 

He doesn't go back to Kings Landing this last time to have sex with her, though. Its to save her or die with her. It's about family for him in the end, and he's totally zen about what's about to happen when the Keep starts falling in on them while she's freaking out. He's exactly where he wants to be.

Edit- my point being that I believe this is how GRRM wrote this and I disagree that Jaime Lannister is a poor character arc on the show. He's one of the really good ones.

 

After he explicitly rejects dying with her in the books. I'm firmly in the "he's going to kill her and he'll be the valonqar" camp.

 

https://chryswatchesgot.tumblr.com/

 

There's not much explicitly clear to me in the books, no offense lol, so much gets subverted.

 

Didn't he just reject going back to KL to help her by fighting as her champion? Rejecting her for the first time was a major character moment to be sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the volonqar prophecy was not as it seems. Of course I feel the context will be wildly different if we ever get it.

 

Yeah having just finished AFFC, at the end Jaime finally rejects the idea of going to help Cersei and be her champion. So it's very new and could possibly regress, we'll see.

 

I don't know if he'll regress per se. He may still love her even though he will no longer do anything for her. I definitely don't see him outright murdering her and ASOIAF prophecies are almost always extremely vague and open to interpretation.

 

Him realizing how bad Cersei treats him and walking off with zombie Brienne (lol) doesn't mean he wouldn't go back for his sister in the end. As is pointed out, by himself and Cersei, he's not the smartest of the three siblings.

 

Zombie Brienne? Haven't heard that one before and I have heard a lot.

 

The mark on her neck, I always think of it as a bite.

Edit - and that she's infected by something. She's off kilter when he sees her again

 

Zombie Brienne? I'm confused. She didn't die. She decided to join Stoneheart before she could be hanged fully right...?

 

Jaimie already seemed to realize Cersi was essentially gone from his life - the letter just seemed to be the final straw.
Of course, one has to wonder how Jaimie is going to survive at all...

 

Well also just because he doesn't want to run back to a very dangerous situation and rescue her from a problem of her own making doesn't mean he doesn't still love her, somewhere in there.

Who knows if Cersei herself will even survive. But wouldn't you think the High Sparrow would be out to arrest Jaime for incest, too???

 

It's unclear what happened, but I don't think she died.

She was injured by Biter. And she's off kilter because she's luring Jaime to Stoneheart, probably.

 

I don't think she died either.

 

Wasn't it confirmed that she shouted "sword" to save Pod? How could she shout if she's dead...?

I haven't read ADWD yet so I don't know what actually happens with Brienne and Jaime there.. just read the wiki and there is zero indication that she's a zombie when luring Jaime. I have no idea why you think she died

 

We could just confirm it ourselves by opening up our books lol. I forgot that Biter bit her lol, and then Gendry whacks him. But there was something about the way Jaime perceived her coming out of the trees towards him that made me think something happened to her. Its probably nothing and like Guy said, she's just trying to get him to Catelyn.

 

I could open my copy of ADWD and find that chapter, but it's on the floor and I don't want to.

 

And you didn't read it yet, so don't lol!!