Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

We don't know what word Brienne shouted.
Brienne looked like she had aged "ten years" since Jaimie saw her last. The only other descriptions were the bite and having Oathkeeper.

 

Jaime killing Cersei is, like, R+L=J levels of hinted-at-but-obvious.

 

R+L=J wasn't a prophecy, though. It wasn't a prediction of the future. It was something that happened in the past and was known to be fact by some people. I think "Jaime murders Cersei" is a little too obvious and doesn't fit with the character so far, but maybe that's just me. I mean if we take Maggy the Frog literally, she says "hands" and Jaime has only one.

 

Per GRRM, she yelled "sword".
https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6425/

 

One real hand, yes. Since he didn't go with the hook or chainsaw, he still has his artificial hand.

Then again, sometimes I like to think that Maggy was some old woman who had no powers of foresight and was just messing with Cersi.

 

He still can't wrap his golden hand around her neck.

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Now that I read the prophecy again, I'm not sure Maggy is even saying the valonqar will kill Cersei. It could easily be a metaphor.

 

It could easily be some Twilight Zone ironic twist, such as Jaimie using the necklace of the King's Hand - which I believe is made of representations of hands? - to strangle her.

Or, it could just be that Cersi was right and it will be Tyrion after all.

 

She also doesn't say "your valonqar." So it could be any younger brother, such as Sandor Clegane or "Aegon" or Stannis or (lol) Tommen. Or Cersei mistranslated it and it's a gender-neutral term. Whatever its meaning I don't think it's as straightforward as Jaime murders Cersei.

 

They’re both events that are implications in the text rather than anything stated outright, is the point. It’s not necessarily true that it will happen — but it’s the obvious inference to draw from the text. She’s paranoid Tyrion will kill her, but it’s actually the other younger brother she takes for granted, but who has slowly soured on her and tried to recover his better nature, who will finally be driven to kill her. And it’s where both characters’ arcs seem to be pointing.

Like you say, the prophecy could go in a different direction. But it makes no sense to suggest that there’s any evidence of his arc going in the opposite direction (other than the question-begging “It happened in the show so it MUST be from Martin!”).

 

I'm 100% convinced of this, yeah. Whether it's Jaime, Tyrion, or any other younger brother, it's going to be with that chain.

 

I still think that the ultimate plot in the books is going to be about how humanity is caught between the elemental forces of fire and ice, and finally breaking the cycle.
Fire and Blood made it clear that the "Lands of Long Summer" are just as cursed and terrifying as the icy wastes of the North.
Ultimately, I think this means no more dragons. And anyone brought back by the "fire" will perish again. The Maesters are right; magic has to leave the world to save it. That, I think, will be the bittersweet ending to the book series. Very "Tolkienesque", so to speak.

 

A big part of the books, like in Lord of the Rings, is the decline of magic in the world. Children of the forest, giants, mammoths, dragons, etc. would all be classified as critically endangered by the IUCN. Until the revival of the dragons and the Others (apparently) Red Priests' magic didn't work very well or at all. While the maesters are the most actively hostile toward magic, humanity as a whole seems to be causing its decline. I'm not sure magic and the supernatural are bad for humans so much as they are bad for it.

 

Haven't got into the books (and won't unless GRRM makes pages), but I saw @Point Given mention that "Fire and Blood" book and mistakenly searched the "World of Ice & Fire"-- which PG and lots of you peeps gave great reviews here. So I picked it up and wow it's awesome. Thanks for recommending, it's beautiful and a really nice way to dive into the world.

 

It really is. I'm a sucker for these "in universe" type guides.
I liked that the Maesters know that regular seasons should probably be how the world works, but doesn't.
Also, the various Lovecraftian references.

 

Maybe it means he hugs her while the Red Keep comes falling down around them.

 

And remember, that line was left out of the prophecy on the show. Apparently that was intentional.

 

New not a blog post

Saying if he doesn’t have wow in hand for worldcon 2020 we can tie him to a chair in a cabin

So sweet summerchild is hoping it’s true

 

I actually took that to mean he fully intends on releasing it by next summer. Obviously we've been here before, but other than his New Year's post a few years ago, he's never really given any detail on how far he is with Winds.

Amazing.

 

I have to admit that made me rather hopeful for the first time in years. The odd thing about the show is that seeing the way the show handled/butchered the ending, I’m more desperate for the books than ever.

 

For those going on about "Arya the Explorer", Fire and Blood has a wonderful tale about a female explorer who spends time came money outfitting a major expedition to explore over the western oceans.

 

There was so much talk about how the show would render the final books irrelevant...and yet the opposite has happened! People are now so hopeful for there to be an alternative version of the canon.

 

The new conspiracy theory is that GRRM gave them fake points to hit so that when his incredibly delayed* novels arrive we can laugh at the dumb plotting decisions the show made!

* -- those books are never coming out.

 

My bet is that Winds of Winter will be out in either 2020 or 2021. Depending on his involvement with the HBO spin-off(s), I predict A Dream of Spring will be out in 2031.
I read he initially intended to end the story there, but I bet there will be another book announced, but I don't think that one will ever see the light of day unless someone else finishes it, but then there will be an argument on what the true "true" ending will be.

 

this is just a random aside, but i was reading "not a blog" for the first time in a while and scrolling down i suddenly saw a picture of my friend ben. he's a magician who apparently performed at an event grrm was involved with, but it was just a surreal small world moment.

 

Apparently he's betting it will be released by next summer (2020).