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PT A Thread For Prequel Fans To Discuss New Star Wars Content (spoiler tags required)

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darkslayer, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
  2. Gallandro

    Gallandro Force Ghost star 4

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    Jul 8, 1998
    Well, I'll jump in. Just to clarify though, I'm a fan of all six films in the Star Wars Saga, and asking me to pick favorites is like asking which of my daughter's is my favorite. I tend to enjoy watching Revenge of the Sith the most of all six of the films... so I guess you could say that's my "favorite." The rest all depend on mood.

    Anyway, here are some recent bits I wrote summing up my thoughts about the new teaser trailer:

    https://onesaga.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/star-wars-the-force-awakens-teaser-reaction/

    I followed that up with this piece about accepting the new direction of things:

    https://onesaga.wordpress.com/2015/04/20/learning-to-let-go/
     
  3. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2002
    I read the first article you linked to. A lot of your sentiments echo my own. Especially the bit where J.J. says Star Wars is as much as Western as it is a fairy tale. That is pure internet fanboy prequel-bashing drivel that he is clearly regurgitating for marketing purposes. Star Wars is a fairy tale. Period. There may be elements of Westerns here and there. But there are also elements of 1930's serials like Commander Cody (a character is even named Commander Cody in Revenge of the Sith) and elements of Japanese cinema (heavy Hidden Fortress elements specifically) and swashbuckler films like Robin Hood and lots and lots and lots of other various elements of other film genres Lucas is/was a fan of. To quote Hayao Miyazaki:

    George has a lot of grist in Star Wars.
     
  4. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 25, 2014
    Nice thread Darkslayer. I've stated before that I prefer the OT over the PT and so far like what Disney's been doing. However, I am a PT fan, in fact the PT has been growing on me, and if you asked me what kind of star wars fan I am, I would answer I'm a overall saga fan. I also have been looking at both sides. I've stated many times that ESB is a favorite of mine, and after thinking about more what would happen if Disney ignored or at least seem like they are ignoring the OT. I would be upset or at least worried, and see I think OT fans forget that the PT is for some people what the OT is for them.
     
  5. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2002
    Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm a saga fan too. I was 9 years old in 1977 when Star Wars came out so the OT is definitely what I grew up with. But I love the prequels too. ROTS is my second favorite of the Star Wars films. I saw them each at least 20 times in theaters. If they had stayed longer than that number would've been higher. I pretty much saw them at least once a week each week they were in cinemas. So yeah...I just love Star Wars I guess. :p
     
  6. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 25, 2014
    I gotta confess, I'm a sucker for anything star wars. OT, PT, EU just about everything. ROTS is my favorite PT episode and my favorite movie theater experience( went to a drive in movie theater when I was kid and the only time went to a drive in) also making it my most nostalgia star wars film.
     
  7. Gallandro

    Gallandro Force Ghost star 4

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    Jul 8, 1998
    I'm less concerned about the content coming from the Star Wars Story Group like the comics, books, and Rebels... those I think are on the right path, although I find the Vader comic to be awful. my biggest concern is this first kickoff film. I'm just not convinced, based on JJ's earlier work that he can really handle this gig. And that's funny because initially I was a huge supporter and really thought he should be the one to carry the Saga forward, but as I started really digging into his films I saw a growing trend... no not shaky cam, or lens flares, but how he constructed and told stories.

    His films have this bizarre tendency to work fine for the first two acts, but completely collapse in the finale. He tends to pack his final act with emotional scenes placed in a way that we forgive how paper thin the conclusion of his story is. Into Darkness was just endless action sequences packed on top of each other so we tend to gloss over some pretty gaping plot holes. The conclusion of Super 8 really makes no sense in the context of the film he's trying to make... he's making an 80's homage so the alien either needs to be completely sympathetic, or a stone cold killer... Abrams unsuccessfully tries to dance a line between both leaving you feeling little sympathy for the alien and wondering if Colonel Nelec, although misguided, was in fact right all along. Star Trek's finale is hampered by a weak villain, and a haphazard plot. Spock's decision to maroon Kirk midway through the film seems to be nothing more than a contrivance so Kirk meets old Spock. Finally, Mission Impossible III's plot finally gets trapped in its own effort to be clever with it McGuffin, "The Package," never really leaving the audience with a satisfying conclusion.

    Ultimately, JJ's films are entertaining diversions, but his shortcomings as a story teller do him in, and although his efforts are valiant, and he tries to infuse his movies with some emotional depth, they are in fact little more than the standard popcorn fare by the likes of Michael Bay or Gore Verbinski.
     
  8. Chrisf001

    Chrisf001 Jedi Padawan

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    Dec 2, 2014
    What I love about the PT and OT taken together is its 'magnum opus' quality. 6 thematically consistent films that (to me, anyway) fit together beautifully, made over a 28 year span, and all headed up (and largely paid for) by one creative mind.

    I don't mean to dismiss the contributions from the scores of talented folks who also worked on the movies, but George Lucas "is" Star Wars to me. He was always the creative force guiding the story. Similar to what Vince Gilligan is to Breaking Bad, or Matthew Weiner to Mad Men. For folks that don't like the way SW went they're happy he's gone, but I'm not one of them.

    What I fear about more Saga films is that they'll dilute this cohesiveness. I'd trust George to come up with an arc for a new trilogy that would fit in with, yet build off of, what has come before. The rumor I've always read is that the 'last' trilogy would be about the wisdom and difficulty of choosing between right and wrong. Which makes some sense following an OT largely about good vs evil, and a PT about how good people and a democracy can become said evil.

    I'm not convinced Disney and co. care about this aspect. That they've jettisoned GL's ideas doesn't increase my faith. Hopefully I'm wrong. If a new trilogy is just a 'return to good vs evil', well, we already have a trilogy of those. New Saga movies need to have something fresh to say. I want the films to have a really good 'reason' to exist (past the profit motive :).

    I think I'm going to miss the "Lucas Era" of Star Wars. Hopefully the Disney Era proves worthwhile.

    I wouldn't necessarily hold other SW projects to the same standard. If they want to make a "gritty" anthology with Rogue One, so be it. I'm not sure it's the wisest move to go more 'adult' with a property that's always been considered kid-friendly, but there's probably room to play in the SW universe. I still want the main Saga consistent though.
     
  9. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Same here. What doesn't come from him is a mere interpretation of Star Wars. A fan interpretation. I will keep an eye on projects that are based on material that he was involved in, but those that ignore his story/vision/legacy on purpose (as seems to be the case with the ST) will be equally ignored by me.
     
  10. Han Burgundy

    Han Burgundy Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 28, 2013
    As someone who loves all the films, the new teaser actually got me really excited. There were some truly great shots that make me think JJ really gets it. The main thing I noticed is his use of pseudo-symbolic imagery. The Stormtroopers lining up in front of the massive Nazi-esque banner, the fantastic opening wide shot of the downed destroyer/x-wing, suggesting that this is a world that is very much haunted by the wars of its past... stuff like that never found it's way in to JJ's previous movies. To me, it suggests that he understands the cinematic canvas of Star Wars and is willing to respect that.

    At the same time, it still feels very JJ Abrams, and I'm okay with that. For all the hullabaloo about "returning to the original trilogy roots", at the end of the day the ST should have its own feel, and I think this trailer communicated that better than most people realize. There's an energy to the cinematography that has not been present in any of the 6 previous films (the camera pulling back as Rey and Finn sprint away from TIE fire), and in general, there's an aura of intensity that feels new... almost every chatacter shot we've seen so far has someone gasping for air, fleeing from a threat, or generally just expressing some sort of intense feeling. And then there's the designs... whereas the PT started away from the OT and crept it's way forward, TFA is starting in a world where everything is familiar, but unmistakably new. The aesthetic of the First Order is really growing on me. And BB8... come on. What a little charmer.

    At the very least, when I look at the footage released so far, I know in my heart that we're about to get a Star Wars movie that gets what makes Star Wars fun. Whether or not it achieves anything greater than that remains to be seen. There's still so much about this movie we don't know.
     
  11. Saga Explorer

    Saga Explorer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 14, 2015
    I agree with what Gallandro and Alexrd said .
    I really want to be excited for the Sequel Trilogy , but I have really mixed opinions about it thus far.
    I am a fan of the whole Saga(along with TCW and Rebels , give it or take it New Canon stories(especially AND,T,KTLP ) and Legends stuff ) and I hope we get something new and fresh along with the Star Wars feel.
    What really gets on my nerves is the whole practical deal (the way it is represented ) and I don't know if J.J. gets it.
    I could go on and on ...

    Three things that the teasers lacked :
    1.Brand new designs (aside from the minor improvements and BB-8 )
    2.Species (not counting Humans and Chewie)
    3.Environments ... (I hide it for those who haven't seen the trailer and the mods)
    A desert planet ...Jakku (not Tatooine) , snow planet and a forest planet ... [face_tired]
     
  12. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    Thanks so much for the request.

    As Gallandro said I am into all six films because they are one unfied whole of a story. This is an inescapable fact. Each supports the other and makes the others better.

    Yeah but he's really busy making a movie and doesn't have the time to waste the energy to try and so the dumbed down mediaspeak is the best way to go.

    As I said on the Practical Effects thread:

    Well he is obviously playing to the fact that most people have no real idea how the PT was made because they really don't know how the OT was actually made either but they obviously know enough to know that it didn't really use "CGI" as it didn't exist in it's current form then.

    The distinction between digital and CGI is totally lost on most people and it's not because they are stupid it's just that they just haven't looked into it and base what they know on the mass of erroneous articles out there like the one pointed out earlier.

    KK and JJ know the reality of production but have decided to take the path of least resistance and promote the "practical" angle and "balancing CGI and practical". They of course know this is rubbish but why create an antagonistic relationship by telling all these media types they don't know what they are talking about?

    http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/0...g-effects-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html

    On practical and CG effects:

    “I feel like the beauty of this age of filmmaking is that there are more tools at your disposal, but it doesn’t mean that any of these new tools are automatically the right tools. And there are a lot of situations where we went very much old school and in fact used CG more to remove things than to add things.”

    “There are obviously an enormous amount of CG effects in the film, and I can’t wait for you to see the combination. But it was very important that we build as many sets as we could and that the film have a tangible, sort of authentic quality that you believed that these things were actually happening in a real space with real sunlight, if it was an exterior scene, or if we could build a big portion of a scene and not have anything be blue screen, do it where we could. It was a very important piece of work.”

    So he said they would do it where they could. He didn't say how often that actually happened of course and since 99% of them are never going to ask what was what then it's all covered. They just know that it was done the "balancing CGI and practical" way.

    This of course is always the way it was done on the PT. John Knoll was one of the main guys in charge who George gave the responsibility to decides these things and he of course is overseeing all Star Wars movies in a senior position and Roger Guyett is working on TFA as a supervisor just as he did on ROTS and both of JJ's Treks.
     
  13. bigtukker

    bigtukker Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 22, 2012
    I love that they're trying to transition the PT with the OT with the comics, the books and especially Rebels. Filoni loves the prequels and it's very apparent in the show he creates
     
  14. Saga Explorer

    Saga Explorer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 14, 2015
    Filoni is the ace in the hole .
     
  15. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Going to be interesting to see how we will look at the PT after the completion of the ST.
     
  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    I would like very much to see a Dooku descendant in the ST Era but I would like it to be done with depth if it's done at all.
     
  17. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 25, 2014
    Speaking of Filoni, here's a interesting piece of quotes from the Rebel Force Radio on the Prequel Appreciation Society.

    https://starwarsprequelappreciationsociety.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/filoni-on-the-pt-and-rebels/
     
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  18. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    Interesting quotes but he's wrong in part on the final one. Any fan can dismiss whatever they choose and most do regardless of era.
     
  19. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 25, 2014
    I don't really agree with him on that either. I like the rest of it though.
     
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  20. Han Burgundy

    Han Burgundy Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 28, 2013
    Fans are free to have whatever they want in their personal canon, but I do think it's a great rule for any future creators to consider all of Star Wars when doing their work. I think Filoni has lived that out pretty well. He did a great job of slowly creeping TCW towards a more original trilogy aesthetic, and Rebels contains a lot of tasteful callbacks to the previous era. The result is that it all feels like one big universe with a dense history.
     
  21. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005

    some of the people that don't like the PT will end up not liking the ST for one reason or another. It's in human nature to be unhappy. It's kind of like many beloved sports figure's weren't beloved until late in their careers.
     
  22. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2002
    Don't underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance.
     
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  23. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The 6 part tragedy of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is no more. Just as the story was the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, then evolved to Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, the story evolves once more. Either Rise/Fall/Redemption/Legacy of Anakin or now the Skywalker Saga. Or we could call the PT the Set up to Luke's Adventures, the OT as Adventures of Luke and the ST as Luke's Legacy or something else.

    Yeah. I can agree with the sports star's comments. Take Jeff Gordon for example. Dominated NASCARGo in the 90's and early 2000's and wasn't well liked, tapered off in recent years wins wise and now more popular. Going to be interesting to see how the OT Big 3 will be received. Some people will accept it, some won't. Trilogy debates will be fun. Maybe more people will accept the PT.
     
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  24. Han Burgundy

    Han Burgundy Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 28, 2013
    Who wants to take bets on how many movie critics will start their TFA reviews with some variation of "You can relax- they're better than the prequels." :p
     
  25. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
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