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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Abortion: Why not?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Boba Nekhbet, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Maybe, but if eliminating abortion is such a priority, are people willing to compromise the "everyone pays for his or her own" principle to make it happen?
     
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  2. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Given the data on how access to family planning improves lives and improves society, I don't see how "pay for your own" is reasonable at all. It should be guaranteed by the state as all necessary medical care should be.
     
  3. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    J-Rod, it's science, but you're not interpreting it correct.

    By the rationale stated there, having a **** is in fact a profound waste of human life because technically, unless defective (aka infertile), sperm also contain the epigenetic factors for growth into an adult human, once combined with a female egg. It's a ridiculous conceit to use these factors in a manner that is disingenuous, or because hypocritical Judeo-Christian ethics are squeamish about terminating white children but indifferent to doing so - provided the child is brown or darker - via sanctions and bombing campaigns.

    Vaderize, an actual physician, has pointed out what I said earlier about the responsiveness of the foetus to external stimulus. You can ignore this but it is a conspicuous absence you don't address. It is no more murder to do this than mowing your lawn is mass murder. That the parasite foetus eventually will grow to independence from its host is relevant only at a time where it does this. At the stage in which an abortion is performed, and we're talking the ones you don't like (not medical emergencies), the foetus has already developed the basic structure of what will constitute individual personality. Before 16 weeks, it is as likely to object to a termination on even a primal, visceral level as an artichoke is likely to object to one ripping its heart out.

    J-Rod your concern here has been driven largely by a lie, which is namely that a poor representation of the baby Jesus in helpless form is stabbed repeatedly by socialist medical professionals from Cuba. Hyperbolic? Of course, but so is the argument that it's a human life. Science is clear on the matter, it's religious philosophers who struggle with it. I'm not sure how they're qualified to make a call on the matter but then again, possession of fact is not important in most of their decisions.
     
  5. vin

    vin Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 1999
    The best part about aborting them is making them ;)
     
  6. Mortimer Snerd

    Mortimer Snerd Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Don't ever change.
     
  7. vin

    vin Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 1999
    All in good fun.
     
    J-Rod likes this.
  8. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    I already addressed this. You can make the argument that a brain dead person on life support is in the process of dying. There is a difference between the end of life and the beginning of life.

    Sperm is a part of a living organism. It doesn't grow. It doesn't reproduce. No more than an egg is a living individual. On it's own, it's just part of a larger organism. But combined they are a new, unique individual. A brand new life.

    Also, a baby responds to touch by 8 weeks. 8 weeks! Look, microbial life is life. "Life on Mars!!!" Do you think we are looking for dogs and cats up there? No, we would just like to find any single cell organism to make that claim. Why is it life if we find it on Mars, but it isn't when we find it in the womb?

    And as you brought up the white man not caring about little brown babies, I'd like to point out that white people have been trying hard to take funding away from Planned Parenthood. And do you know that while black people make up only 13% of America's population, 30% of the babies killed by PP are black. So let's get together and stop this.

    Unless you don't care about little brown babies being slaughtered.
     
  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Only 3 percent of Planned Parenthood's services are abortions. The people who are taking away Planned Parenthood funding are not interested in preventing abortions. They are interested in ensuring that poor women have less access to birth control and health services. And they don't even see the irony of limiting access to birth control in the name of "reducing abortion."

    Anyone who is genuinely interested in reducing abortion--not controlling the sex lives of people they don't know, actually reducing abortion--should be campaigning to increase funding for Planned Parenthood.
     
  10. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    To what end would someone want poor women to have less access to birth control?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
     
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Dunno. Ask the people who want funding for Planned Parenthood reduced.
     
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  12. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    j-rod, i wish you would stop saying "babies" when you mean "embryos". that you have to continually rely on such a disingenuous tactic says a lot about your lack of an actual argument.
     
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  13. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Then why don't you just ask me? That way you can take off your tin foil hat and quit making up motivations to fit your warped world view
    If I'm right, and I really really really believe I am, they are babies. :( And people are killing them. Some unknowingly.
     
  14. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    and acorns are oak trees i guess.
     
  15. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    my youngest son became a baby in a petri dish under a microscope in our fertility specialist's lab. damn, I forgot to send the embryologist a Valentine's Day card this year.
     
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  16. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Those ain't human life.
     
  17. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    right, can't use basic logic if human life is involved. got it.
     
  18. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    So human life is a special category in science where the fetus is a person but for every other organism, the "unborn" offspring isn't the same.

    Science!
     
  19. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    [​IMG]

    This is pretty much exactly how my youngest was conceived. Around the corner would have been the men's room where I had to ejaculate into a plastic cup. Human life! Mysterious and sublime. You can almost feel God's holy presence in the room.
     
  20. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    J-Rod, I think we (or most of us) agree a zygote and a embryo and a fetus and a baby and all are living organisms. But not all of those are a human being. Some will develop into such unless nature or humans prevent such from happening.

    In fact, and gee I hate to be snarky-jokey here, but if "God" terminates non-viable pregnancies, shouldn't he be outlawed from killing babies, too?
     
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  21. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Until very recently, my wife and I still had five babies in cryogenic storage, but we signed a release form to donate them to science.

    Yes. We are serial killers. Infanticidal maniacs on the loose.
     
  22. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    To be fair, I didn't really take the comparison between plant development and animal development seriously. Should I have?!
    Read the Bible. If that's a legitimate theological question, I mean. Because the answer is in there.
    It's why many people don't think we should be doing that unless all viable embryos are allowed to live.
     
  23. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Out of curiosity: Has anyone come across a pro-lifer who wasn't right-wing? I met some folks years ago from the Catholic Worker (anti-war, strong social safety net) and it was refreshing to hear from those whose anti-abortion stance was rooted in morality, rather than some pathological aversion to female sexuality.
     
  24. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    i think it's obvious j-rod that your view that human life is somehow different from any other life is rooted in your particular worldview and has nothing to do with science. i don't recall science making many declarations about what is "sacred". but it's what you "really, really, really believe". that's fine. just drop the facade that you're trying to have this argument from a scientific point of view.
     
  25. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    "It's why many people don't think we should be doing that unless all viable embryos are allowed to live."

    Those people are ****ing idiots.