Senate Going Postal: The 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

other american parties actually did things though. Who cares about being a major party? We should try if nothing else cause it cements a movement. The Greenbacks did what they needed to, as did the socialists, etc

Or even if we fail then go out like the Radical Democracy Party; stand for something. If the radical republicans had split when reconstruction ended we would have a UK type of system. Rad republicans as a labour and civil rights party

 

Sure, but that still doesn’t change that they were not good at actually getting elected. They implanted changes in the main parties, which is something but that shouldn’t be the goal of a third party

 

then what is the goal? You say we cannot start one cause it wouldn't win, but then that we cannot start one just to push ideas cause that's not good enough.

What exactly do you want from a third party then, or is it just something you would never go with? The old socialist party which became the DSA had members who stayed around beyond Debs, just that alone made it worth it. Why is that not good enough? Why is threatening the DNC from the outside not good enough to justify a new party? We need one, so let's make one. Damn the odds or what practical reason you can scrape out of various complex situations in the past centuries.

Greenbacks formed what would become the people's party which would lead to the socialists, we need to continue that. Who cares if it is small, not like the Bolshevik or Jacobins, or even Labor at times had much of any power. But regardless, none of these complaints are good enough reason to not do so, politics is about movements and power, if we refuse to gain power out of fear it wont be enough, we will NEVER gain any.

 

I just don’t think a third party can take off, but I have been proven wrong hundreds of times. The goal of a third party in a two party system is to grow large enough to take out or consume one of the major two parties such as what the Republican Party did to the Whig party.

Do I think it’s close to impossible? Yes, but as I said I could be completely off base.

 

At this point, can we even be confident in Biden to inherit all of this? I mean, obviously it's better than a Trump second term, but is a senile old man the best we have right now to replace that? Out of all the competent working age people in the political arena.

 

It’s either Trump or him so yes. When it comes to the presidential election. I am far more interested in the senate and the House of Representatives as even if Trump wins at least we could block most things

 

I mean it obviously has to be Biden. I just can't help but shake my head that out of all the competent people out there, Biden is the only option we have now to replace Trump. And I'm in my early 30s, and there's a large part of me that still thinks Biden is just more of the same old establishment. We might get a bandaid thrown our way here or there. But how much are things really going to change under Biden?

 

Well, only basic things will change if Biden isn't willing to kill the filibuster in the Senate, should Democrats emerge with a majority there. If they have the presidency, House, and Senate, they should eliminate the filibuster and be radical from the first day.

 

The radical administration of President Joe Biden. I'd like to see that.

 

We could only hope so. But a lot of even democratic leadership are self serving and more interested in protecting their own careers over sticking to their ideals. If things are about to get radical, that means somebody has to step out and actually be radical. And while that may be the hip trendy talking point right now, once the election is over and the dust settles, are people really going to stand by that and act on it? I doubt it. For that matter, the DNC did everything they could to push out the one guy who would have pushed for radical change and actually acted on it.

 

It depends on whether the Democrats get the Senate or not. If you have Biden + the two chambers, Yes, there can be some significant improvement. Less than what we'd hope for, but non negligible nonetheless.
Without the Senate it might be the most boring administration in history.

 

Plz no Bernie stan-ing. The man is almost 80 years old and had no business running. The same goes for Biden (and I said this repeatedly between 2016 and now).

 

You supported Elizabeth Warren, a 70 year old backtracker who took a DNA test as a response to Trump's insult. You refuse to make your political positions know (because you're not really left wing at all and you're afraid of confirming it), but the only reason you're against Bernie is because you're a centrist lib.

 

Vivec what is this new thing where you are an inquisitor accusing every other poster of being a secret "liberal" or being scared?

 

He refuses to make his political positions known in a politics thread. I always make my positions known. Everyone here knows what I believe in and why I believe it. And then he has the temerity to tell someone not to stan for Bernie after he stans for a 70 year old with terrible political judgement. Nah, don't sell me this.

 

@Jabba-wocky
It's not a new thing, I think he used it with me as well in some moment in the past.

 

I'll give it to the people who would occupy those positions that right now they might actually believe that they would enact certain changes. But like anything in life, the reality often falls quite short from what somebody thought of before hand. And that's what I fear will happen. That once these people are in those positions, they won't actually enact the changes they thought, and believed, they would. That's just how people are.

Well, between Bernie and Biden, I would have rather had Bernie as the nominee. Prior to that, I had different views on who would make the best president. Personally I thought Swalwell would have been the best choice, but that was only based on a rudimentary assessment of all the candidates. I really didn't pay much mind to it. It honestly didn't click with me how up schitt's creek we were until I watched the final democratic debate between Bernie and Biden, just watching these two grey haired guys in their 70s going at each other, knowing they are now the only hope of replacing another grey haired guy in his 70s.

 

If KW tells me what specific policies he has disagreement with and what policies he wants enacted, I can feel like I have something to debate with. Otherwise, how do you respond to "don't stan for [politician you like]" outside of "you can't tell me what to do."

 

Wait, what?

You are complaining he's not forthcoming about is politics while also complaining in detail about what his political positions are?

 

I'm making a presumption of what his political positions are based on his evasiveness when it comes to actually describing his own positions. In short, I'm making an accusation.

 

If the protests peter out in next few days, Trump will probably say the youth violence was due to unemployment, and blame Democrat mayors for not reopening the economy sooner.

 

Also no Bernie staning, but also we cannot build a movement beyond specific personalities like him that managed to get far?

 

I only mentioned Bernie simply because it was between him or Biden. It could have been a lot of other people vs Biden for the democratic nomination, and I would have gone with them instead of Biden at this point. Biden kind of played everybody and relied on his reputation via Barack and just said what everybody else said during the lead up. But once he got the nomination and started talking on his own, I think a lot of people collectively went "oh **** this is our nominee?". That's certainly the case with me.

 

Oh I wasn't sniping at you, but everyone else who are critiquing a third party based on contradictory justifications