ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode IX

You can bank on it that Kylo will kill the rest of the OT characters personally. Chewie, C3PO, R2D2, and will be said to have killed Leia in Ep IX either in the crawl or through exposition.

Kylo is like a Disney's emissary inside that GFFA.

 

Prediction! There's a Fight Club-like twist when it's revealed that Rey doesn't exist! She's a figment of Kylo's imagination. She's the manifestation of the light in Kylo.

 

It's undeniable Kylo gets agitated the more he does wrong. The face off with Luke is very telling. Though he attacks, he's doesn't seem that 'convinced' to totally destroy. It's like he has to get himself up for it. Han, Luke... hell - even his fight with Finn. Kylo didn't get serious till after Finn landed a blow to his shoulder. I'm not looking for redemption for Kylo, but I hope we get some answers for his actions besides power or some other cliché. In fact, I'd venture to say Kylo Ren's motivations literally will be a "make or break" moment for this trilogy and perhaps the saga moving forward. It better be good Ben Solo....

 

We have to move from the classic idea of villain/good guy in this trilogy. Everything I have read up to now, even from Disney itself, is that Kylo Ren is not an antagonist, he's co-protagonist with Rey, which leads back to Rian Johnson's own words: "Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist".
Yes, he killed his father. Anakin Skywalker killed innocent younglings in the Jedi temple and his pregnant wife, who eventually forgave him, just like Han Solo forgave his son (remember the caress on his cheek before dying?).
It is also wrong to speak of redention in Ben Solo's case. He must find the balance between his Dark Side and his Light Side, just as Rey has with no training at all, simply relying on her good sense and instinct.
I see Kylo's motivation until now has been to live up to the heavy legacy of his name, and this burden is crippling him.
He must let go of that and find his own identity, regardless of bloodline and training.
Remember one of the first lessons Yoda taught Luke on Dagobah? "You must unlearn, what you have learnt". So I feel this is the path for Kylo/Ben from now on: In order to find himself he needs to unlearn to fight the pulse to the Light in order to embrace it, just as he has embraced the Darkness.
But I see a lesson for Rey as well: she must learn to embrace Kylo's darkness as well and try not to turn him.
The fight against the Pretorian Guards was a perfect dance of harmony and intent. She will remember it and hopefully start anew from there.The broken lightsaber will serve as a memento of what happens when the two of them work against each other.

 

I'm in the camp that wants Ben to be redeemed and, also, for him to live to through it. To me, he's been the most compelling and intriguing of the new cast. Hell, I can even see a lot of myself in him. That said, I want him to earn his redemption. If the plan is for him to end up with Rey and produce the next Skywalker, then I want him to fracking well earn that too. Before he's redeemed, I think he's going to suffer a bit. I can see him losing an arm or a hand, like Anakin and Luke before him. For certain though, the last thing I want for him is a pat ending, where all his crimes are suddenly forgotten about and everyone just moves on.

 

I hope Ben comes back in some way, but it's also occurred to me that Ben Solo could be the phantom every character chases throughout the trilogy. Everyone wants to see Ben Solo (this character we haven't really met yet exactly), but what if he is just a no show all story long?

 

Serious question for Ben redemption fans: Why do you want Ben Solo to turn back to the light side?

Bonus question: What are you hoping/thinking a redeemed Ben Solo would add to the story and where would you like them to take a redeemed Ben, narratively speaking.

 

In TLJ, we are presented with the idea that heroes are not necessarily born of prestigious bloodlines, but rather are everyday ordinary people who rise to the occasion when needed, and that coming from said prestigious bloodline alone does not necessarily make one great.

Rey is the embodiment of the latter sentiment, whereas Kylo Ren is the embodiment of the former sentiment.

I think a good way to have these themes come to a head in IX would be to write Kylo Ren as believing that ruling the galaxy is his birthright because he is the descendant of great men (Vader, Luke Skywalker), and always planned of killing Snoke and taking over the First Order because of this; he wants to forge a new Empire with a Skywalker at the top that shapes the galaxy in his image, something Darth Vader never accomplished. And opposing him you would have Rey, who comes from a very lowly background but manages to be a good person despite her circumstances seemingly dictating otherwise. That would allow TPTB to expand on the "heroes can come from anywhere" throughline in a meaningful way.

 

I wonder if Ben Solo will have any meta commentary along the lines of "people wanted a Skywalker in charge? Well they've got one, me."

 

Ugh. TLJ was so meta, why not. No need to stop with the campy meta stuff after the second movie! They should finish what they started.

I found the meta a bit like being tortured by the movie and watched the children in the audience with envy since it was going over their heads. However, how does one make a movie in a fandom that knows every conceivable thing one could do in the movie and comments on it endlessly. I mean it's a whole new level of interaction with fans...

Part of me is wondering if Rey will have that line that heroes sometimes give to villains about how the villain could be SO MUCH MORE if he would just stop being a villain. (I mean I hope not. Thor just said it to Loki in Ragnarok. The Doctor said it to the Master. I feel like it's really common.)

 

If Hux finds out that Kylo killed Snoke I'm guessing Hux will try to use it as leverage threatening to tell the entire First Order unless Kylo submits to him. That said Kylo will probably still kill Hux.

Maybe Hux will have something set in place so that if something were to happen to him the info about Kylo killing Snoke and Hux himself would be disclosed to the First Order. Something along the lines of a video from Hux saying, "If you're watching this that means that Kylo killed me just as he killed Snoke".

From there Kylo will have to go on the run. That's how his story ends in Ep. 9, still alive, still evil, and all alone without an empire and on the run.

Actually if I've learned anything about theorizing over the last two years it's that the writers will whatever is easiest so they'll probably just kill Kylo by the end.

 

Because I don't want the final legacy of the Skywalkers/Solos to be a negative and I want the Skywalker bloodline to continue

 

I think that in the end he might exile himself only being visited by Rey

 

Adam Driver is incredible as Kylo Ren.

I completely buy his character and you can see him growing into a master manipulator. Like Vader and Palpatine he seems most manipulative when his emotions seem to be more under his control amd he’s mind-****ing people and just being super sneaky with their trust in him.

However, I even love his angry outbursts. He balances immense physicality with a smoldering, unemotional detachment that absolutely works for this character.

 

Redeeming Vader worked because Star Wars, at that point, was something of a fairly tale/fantasy type of thing. Disney seems to have moved away from that, which makes redemption considerably less likely, as psychotic mass-murderers don't get let off the hook just because they realize that what they did was wrong.

 

Let me just say that as an old guy that grew up with Star Wars and has seen all of the characters come and go, Ben is (was?) easily my favorite character. I won't even call him Kylo Ren, as I find it demeaning and enabling (which is ironic, because I thought Han calling him out as such on the catwalk was bad parenting within their particular context, but I digress). Full disclosure: I'm ridiculous.

The Ben I got in TFA was not the Ben I got in TLJ (IMHO). TFA Ben was so caught up in a whirlwind of anguish and internal strife, we ALL knew him. We've all been Ben Solo at some point in our life. TLJ Ben had his seeming moment of emotional reconciliation in the elevator, but then there was this wooden character (IMHO) that I'm not sure was operating out of desperation, malice, or what. I need to watch the film again and see if I can spin it into him being emotionally "shut down" after the elevator outburst (frustration/humiliation) and presumed death of his mother**. This is all cool if it's resolved in IX (and would make some of the events of TLJ easier for me to digest personally), but there was a continuity for me that was lacking, and I'm hoping Ben has some individual scenes that are allowed to breathe, and we get to see who he truly is again, instead of snapshots of how he's perceived (which I hope to God was intentional). I've come to grips (kinda) with him being painted as the faceless "dark foil" for Rey's TLJ arc, but hopefully for this one movie alone. Again, if that's the plan for Ben's overall arc, then...genius (I guess).

So, as far as IX...I don't need him "redeemed". I think Ben is miserable - is *destined* to be miserable - and he doesn't care about any of that. The Ben I "know" is a wayward soul, and has been since his youth; doesn't trust anyone, yet so desperately wants to belong to someone...or something. He's still haunted about the incident with his father, and coupled with the presumed death of his mother**, is dying inside. He's been a victim of circumstance his whole life, and as much as I love the character, I somehow would be happier seeing him either live or die as a tormented soul. He knows he's done terrible things. I don't think that he feels he deserves to be "redeemed". His compass just points to wherever he feels most wanted (and "loved"), yet he knows he deserves it from no one.

** Are we to assume Ben knows that Leia is still alive, or is that something they have to "Force reach out" to do, and since Ben initially presumed her dead and has no reason to do so, STILL presumes her to be dead?

 

Well said, Keycube!
First I think we need to define what "redeem" means. If it is embracing the Light and give up the Darkness, as Vader did, we DO know this is not the way.
I have serious issues with the whole "redemption" and "atone" thing. Kylo/Ben has compassion (we know it from Snoke), he has humanity (we have seen it with Rey and Leia). He is UNBALANCED. Han Solo understood his son's pain and forgave him:

- Michael Kogge's The Force Awakens (the Junior novelisation)

This is canon. Han, Luke, Leia, Snoke have wronged him. Only his father and Luke atoned for his pain.
We are led to believe that his POV in TLJ is wrong and that Rey is right.
As a matter of fact he is right in wanting all factionalisms to die, but, when he proposes Rey to rule together, all this sounds awfully familiar because we have heard that before in Episode III:

(Anakin to Padme)

And Episode V:

(Darh Vader to Luke)

The difference is subtle but there. Kylo doesn't say he wants to rule the galaxy

I may be wrong here, but he emphasis here is in joining, like in marriage-joining, repeated twice. The following is a strong reference to Pride and Prejudice ("You are no royalty but i don't care"). I strongly believe that he understood, before Rey did, the need to balance the two forces in both of them and, consequently, in the galaxy. Rey wants to TURN him. This is not the way, and Kylo replies: "You're still holding on [to the old values and believes]. Let go!".

Taking the power as Supreme Leader is a necessity in order to avoid being accused of High Treason. Let's call it Plan B. Probably not what he had in mind.
What follows is a delirious reaction to her rejection und misunderstanding, which does not lead to him choking her or cutting her hand, but a fight over a lightsaber, which himself gave freely to her a few moments before.
It's interesting to notice that Anakin's lightsaber now responds to Kylo's command to "kill" Snoke (actually there are serious evidences that his image in the throne room was a just a projection) and snaps in two, broken by two equal forces.

Nope, no need to redeem or atone, but to find balance. The jourey has just begun, for him and Rey as well.

 

I don't think the word "redemption" works for Ben anymore. He's doing what he thinks is right and as we've seen in TLJ, the Republic and Resistance were not pure angels. He's not evil. What he wants to do for the galaxy has good intentions behind it, as he does have his father's heart, but he is severely corrupted by Snoke and killing him has not lifted that veil of darkness that surrounded him when he was alive. He literally killed his past, but he has not killed the ghosts within. Until he finds light and hope, he will remain Kylo Ren and never be Ben Solo again. His time with Rey brought both to him, but when he lost her, he lost light and hope too.

 

I have no idea where they are going with Kylo after JEDI - which may be what they wanted to accomplish, and which may be a good thing. Maybe. I have a feeling, although JEDI doesn't nail this down, that in keeping with a broader desire to 'reboot' the series some, to move on from classic SW themes, that they may be abandoning the "can the villain be redeemed" storyline that, at the core, really was "the story" of the first six movies, with Anakin/Vader. We've seen that, we've done that. Maybe the plan here is to show a different arc - what if Vader had "won", had destroyed Sidious and taken over? Vader always insisted - truthfully, from his perspective? - that he wanted to bring order, to end the destructive conflict. I strongly suspect the order would be the order of an iron-fisted dictatorship, and that the conflict would be ended by crushing his enemies, but in his own warped way, I do think Vader saw himself as bringing efficiency, order, and peace. Kylo has some echoes of that in his discussions with Rey, and with his stated desire (sincere?) to sweep away the past, to be done with "all of this".

I wonder if this is the plan because, for all the talk of redeeming Kylo in AWAKENS, Leia seems to bail on the idea pretty quickly in JEDI, when talking with Luke (maybe because of the murder of Han?) and Luke similarly dismisses the idea of turning Kylo. While Rey could change her mind, she seems pretty "done" with Kylo - the symbolic closing of the Falcon's door, and the cutting off of the link with Kylo, spoke to that.

That all being said, JEDI showed those behind these movies were certainly willing to bail on/walk away from a number of elements raised in AWAKENS, so there is nothing to say they can't change course again!

PS - I know the whole "balance of the Force" thing has been in play from Day One in the SW movie universe, but respectfully, the movies sure don't make the case well, at ALL, that there is any value to the Dark Side. The Dark Side manifests itself as evil. The movies' Dark Side practitioners are murderers, liars, opponents of freedom and democracy, sadistic, torturers, child-killers, wife-abusers... they aren't simply "passionate" or such. The idea that individuals need to find Light-Dark Side balance within themselves is hard to sell to me, in the context of the movies, when the movie Dark Side is, frankly, simply evil.

 

Kylo's redemption or even just making better choices is up to Kylo himself. I really hope he learns something good from the events of TLJ.

Anyway, as Leia said about Han, he has to follow his own path. No one can choose it for him.

 

There are serious evidence that Snoke is not dead.
In TFA he orders General Hox to bring him Kylo Ren since it was time to complete his training. The whole throne room scene was THE test. What we see is Kylo turning against his master and killing him.
What if Snoke wasn't really there? There are serious evidences hinting that he was projecting his image (), so he isn't really dead.
What does it mean for Kylo?

That he's in serious trouble.

Technically speaking he's hasn't committed high treason yet, but he failed his final test. He hasn't turned to the Dark Side and he attempted to kill his master, at least in his intentions if not in deeds.
I see his next few years (perhaps two or three years gap) as an outcast, an outlaw like his father (wouldn't it be fitting?). Wanted dead or alive from the First Order and the Resistance. I can easily imagine he'll keep a low profile for a while, closing himself to the Force, like Luke, to hide from Snoke. Which means we'll close himself to Rey as well and the closing door on him during their last connection may predict just that.

The whole Episode 8 ws about growth, challenge and connection, so I do not really believe that Kylo will forget those Force connections with Rey, the memory will serve as solace and motivation to move forward, for both, or Episode 8 will make no sense at all.
The options here are multiple, we can only speculate.
We heard a lot about the Knights of Ren but never saw them in action. Snoke called Kylo a Master of the Knights of Ren, so he may play a pivotal role in organizing these guys with an agenda of his own: A cleanup of the Old and a clear start for the New, boycotting both New Order and Resistance operations to create something new. Maybe.

Kylo will grow as his own man, learn to free himself from the burden of his past, his name, his legacy and start a completely new order, not necessarily a dictatorship as we are led to think. Anakin was obsessed with power, Kylo is obsessed with becoming what he's not.
He is a rebel at heart.
Han and Leia's son, half scoundrel, half prince.

 

As much as I doubt Snoke is alive, it would certainly be a stunning twist.

I do think Kylo is going to be up against the First Order as a traitor, though. I suspect it will result in him killing Hux, though not before the lie is revealed. Kylo would then find himself an enemy of the First Order and perhaps with nowhere to turn to except for Rey. Note that she, too, is keeping a traitorous secret from the Resistance: her romance-tinged relationship with the enemy. That's also another secret of Kylo's that would only add to his fallout with the First Order. His identity as Ben Solo, if not widely known, would also add to the treason.

I have a feeling Hux might be the one to kill Leia. I think her death will be a huge catalyst, as we saw Kylo couldn't fire on her. He's deeply regretting killing his father, whom he goes out of his way to say he never hated. Snoke seems to have ordered him to kill Han precisely because he was a weakness. Snoke's manipulations of Kylo to kill his father and then expect him to kill Rey were what caused him to turn on his abuser. His comment to Rey about Han as a father disappointing her thus seems to be more about her searching for parents with a mystical destiny to explain her Force sensitivity, only to look for that in the man who famously had none, as well as having a background as unsuited for greatness as Rey's own.

One of the more interesting lines was regarding Ben having too much of his father's heart in him. I'd like to see this expanded on. They both have a romantic side to them, while also often making a mess of expressing it.

 

I think Snoke is dead and will stay dead. Bringing him back in Ep. 9 would be the equivalent of retconning Rey as a Skywalker; it would completely change the story and undo what was done in Ep. 8.

I think Rey and Kylo are now "adults," there is no dark master to control him or lost family connection for her to rely on. They will learn to stand on their own. It is just them now.

 

I was a huge proponent of the Rey Skywalker theory so I can sympathize with wanting the Skywalker bloodline to continue but I have to admit that if the Skywalker bloodline continues then the franchise is going to be stuck focusing on this one family in a huge galaxy and I feel like that could get stale. The kid in me that grew up on Star Wars doesn't want to let go of these old characters but at the same time when it's all said and done we got nine movies about the Skywalkers. NINE! That's a lot.

As for the Skywalker legacy I think Broom Boy indicates that the final Skywalker legacy is one of hope which is very positive. I believe Luke's sacrifice is going to inspire more people throughout the galaxy than the dozen students Luke tried to train with Ben Solo. Yes Kylo Ren is a Skywalker doing horrible things but how many people in the galaxy even know he's related to the Skywalkers?

What would the writers even do with a redeemed Ben in future movies? Would they really have him join Rey and the Resistance? That would be hard to swallow. Would they have him off on his own helping others in an attempt to atone for his sins? How would that fit that into a movie with Rey and the others?