ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode IX

Why do you speak Jar-Jar today?

 

That's speakin' Tarantino, not Jar Jar.

*Jerry Seinfeld voice* ...Not that there's anything wrong with speaking Jar Jar.

 

Doesn’t seem particularly cryptic. He’s simply saying don’t freak about about this somehow contradicting Kylo’s character development until you see it in context of the film. Which is simply...reasonable.

 

Eye of Palpatine shows up and drops the troopers who kidnap Kylo after an intense battle with the KOR. Then they strap him to a table and Plapy violates him.

 

'The film gives the name context'.

TFA and TLJ give context to 'Supreme Leader Kylo Ren', which is: there was a previous Supreme Leader (called Snoke)

So maybe there was a previous Kylo Ren, the original and sith-esque Kylo Ren. It could be this Acolyte/Matt Smith guy, and Snoke's former apprentice.

According to the rumors, the sith troopers only obey Kylo Ren, but maybe thats not 'our' Kylo Ren.

In 'Aftermath: Life Debt' (4-6 months after ROTJ) we have that 'Vader Lives' graffiti in Corellia. It was painted by the acolytes of the beyond (kids at the time)

Ruin=Ren? Maybe at some point they realized it was not Vader -but 'Ren', lets say- the one who was alive. Ben Solo never knew, and maybe that was part of a plan.

 

I guess I’m the only one who is fine with Kylo changing his mind and calling himself a Sith now?

 

With the lack of consistency between VII and VIII, I have genuinely wondered whether RJ was treating Kylo/Snoke as Sith. I really don't understand Kylo's speech about letting go of the Sith if they've already been gone for 30 years.

 

Depends on the context for me.

Palpatine still existing in any form in IX is already the qualifier for it being a partial retcon of the Sith's original end in ROTJ. So Kylo's beliefs in the film arguably aren't the ultimate factor in the story's direction.

If I'm on board with Kylo's motive or how he is labelled onscreen I think tbh just depends on how compelling the story turns out.
I'm very curious to see if he is originally siding with Palpatine early in the film, truly trying to be like his idol Vader and go full Sith, or if Sidious's intentions don't gel with him from early on. Could be satisfying if he already wants to do things differently to the dark siders of the past as stated in the previous film.

But Kylo fully embracing a Sith identity could make the connective tissue between the saga films way more interesting.
Flashbacks or visions regarding Vader and the Sith playing out on screen because of Kylo's arc would be great fan service.

 

I'm OK with it. In TFA he worshipped Vader, a Sith, and made no mention of not wanting to follow a Sith path and no mention of letting the past die. He seemed to want to resurrect the past and be a new Vader. TLJ reversed that. There's no reason ROS can't reverse TLJ.

 

Maybe, just maybe,....Kylo lied. *gasp*
Maybe, just maybe, Kylo was trying to manipulate Rey. *Gasp*

Seriously. I believe Kylo had ties to the Sith the entire time. I believe that his journey was to become a Sith all along. Apparently the Sith never died just like the Jedi never died. Somehow, Darth Sideous survived and rebuilt the Sith in the shadows until he was able to find a worthy successor. It would make sense that it be Kylo since he has Skywalker blood.

 

I am.

Here's my theory - and only a theory.

Go back to TFA... Kylo Ren... Grandson of Anakin Skywalker... basically worships Darth Vader...dressed like Darth Revan.... uses a red lightsaber ...truly, a Sith fanboy. Someone who I got the impression wanted to emulate the Sith as much as possible.

NOW, we get to TLJ, and those trappings seem to have gone away : the mask - destroyed. The cloak and hood - replaced with a cape. Vader's helmet - awol. At Snoke's rebuke and subtle guidance, Kylo seems to think it's time to move past the Sith (as well as the Jedi). I would say Snoke hates or wants nothing to do with the Sith. Indeed,he is something else, and wants Kylo to move past the Sith ways as well, and attempts to push him to do so. And he seemingly succeeds. Kylo tells Rey to let the past die. And I fully believe at that moment Kylo WAS prepared to do so, with Rey by his side. But what happens? She rejects this, rejects Kylo, goes to help her friends, and accepts being the cornerstone of the new Jedi Order. And remember what Snoke said : "Darkness rises, and Light to meet it." A parallel that as one gets stronger, so does the other. Both felt rejected by their family (from a certain point of view). Both felt "betrayed" by Luke Skywalker, etc.

So , we get to TROS. Perhaps as an indirect response to Rey's rejection of creating something new and letting the past die, and to continue the parallel narrative, in response to Rey restarting the Jedi Order, Kylo restarts the Sith. Rather than continue moving on from the past, maybe now he feels that was a mistake, and decides to embrace it. Declares himself a Dark Lord of the Sith (cause who's around to argue with him?). And starts learning all the Sith knowledge he can get his hands on. But,unknowing to him, there is a real Sith still floating around out there. And Kylo's embracing of the Sith philosophies and techniques not only increases his dark side knowledge, but unwittingly opens up the door for Palpatine to be able to possess his body. They could say it's a Sith technique, but a Sith can only jump into another Sith. Maybe during his spirit time Sheev found Matt Smith's acolyte as willing to learn Sith ways and he taught him enough to allow Palpatine in. But when he senses/finds Kylo has embraced the Sith ways, it's too great a temptation : that powerful Skywalker blood, Sheev desperately wants to possess it. And Palpatine also continues on the Rule of 2 in a new,horrific way - Always 2 there are, but now in one body. Master (mind) and Apprentice (body) inhabiting the same form.

 

Exactly. He’s been a Sith in everything but name for most of the ST so it’s no biggie to me if he’s decided to go all in now.

 

Very very low chance he is a Sith in the film. Introducing him as a Sith while also redeeming him in the film would be a cluster....

 

Who say's Kylo will be redeemed?

 

95% likely

 

And...Rey rejected Kylo after he gave the “let the past die” speech. Which may lead him to become a past worshiper again. A lot of fans oddly isolate lines from films and act as if they are carved in stone. Huge character stuff happened after he said those words, which could easily explain a decision to be/ support the Sith. Just pay slightly more attention, fandom. And who knows? You might end up less outraged. Stranger things have happened.

 

Indeed. Rey’s rejection and Snoke being dead have pushed Kylo to grasp onto the Sith to give him some focus and an ethos and a feeling of being a part of something. That’s my guess at least.

 

Right. It might not be what JJ goes for, and it may not be correct, but obviously there's a way to make it work within the existing story.

 

Well his helmet seems very important to him, he used to keep it in ashes of the enemies he killed according to JJ from a discarded scene and re-used. Maybe the ashes are from Malachor or of someone. Why even rebuild it when you can make a new one, the helmet itself looks very thin and shattered to pieces, not sure how protective it was,lol.

 

I don't think Kylo is going to called a Sith. I think that in the 35 years since ROTJ Palps or some other resurrected Sith has been taking the resources Palps sent to the UR and using them to create a new Sith Empire in secret. The FO is a pawn of of this new Sith Empire, but I feel like only the top leadership of the FO know about the connection. I think Kylo has suspicions about this, which is why he wants Rey to join him. He knows he'll need a powerful ally if and when this hidden Sith presence finally reveals itself- if he doesn't have that, he'll have to bow to this Sith like he bowed to Snoke- and he really doesn't want that.

I think his line from the TFA about needing to see the darkness again is referring to the fact that he's already seen a vision of this great darkness overrunning the GFFA and he's been shown it's related to the Sith. He's been led to beleive that he needs to grow stronger in the darkside to actually defeat the Sith though, since the Jedi were never able to do it with the light. So, when he feels pulled back to the light he needs reminded of what's at stake so he can finish what his grandfather started and destroy the Sith for good. And yes, he wants to rule the GFFA himself once they are gone- it's not like he has unselfish reasons- still, the Force will use his darkness and Rey's light to overcome the Sith's ultimate evil.

I expect TROS to show the Sith Army arrive in force at some point. These Sith Troopers will all be clones which answer to the big bad alone. Their right shoulders all have communcation devices on them which allow the big bad to see everything his entire army sees- and also to send holovid messages to them or anyone else they come in contact with. If the GAR's clones took about a decade to make, then this new Sith Army could show up with 3 to four times their numbers at the very least. This will lead all the would be rebels to team up with the FO to stop this new threat.

 

Right. And then Rey rejects him. Which could push his arc in a regressive direction.

 

So he just wanted to recklessly kill people but not follow a dogma? That's the line that turns him back? I doubt it.