Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Rhiwarkeyl, Dec 21, 2015.
Everything about Anakin Skywalker and his story to discuss and debate about
Anakin is very rude towards battledroids.
Did anybody elsec think Anakins Defeat on Mustafar was anti climactic. It could have been more challenging for Obi-wan. no instead he jumps gets his legs cut off and burns Obi-wans speech was Powerful though.
I think it was appropriate. Anakin got arrogant and underestimated his opponent (that's typical for a Sith - Maul, the Emperor, etc.)
Also important is that Anakin was Obi-Wan's padawan. He was dueling the person who had taught him how to wield a lightsaber.
I think Anakin could have been way more powerful if he did not get trainded by Obi-wan he just became a knight when he started training Anakin maybe Anakin would not become Darth Vader if Yoda or really any other Jedi Master trained him.
Anakin Skywalker is the greatest Star Wars character ever.
One of my favorite discussions is how Anakin would have been had Qui-Gon survived. In fact, it's how I found out about this forum a week ago. The general consensus is that Anakin's fall would have happened regardless of his master. Which I don't necessarily agree with, considering Obi-Wan was someone he became resentful towards, most likely due to the closeness in age and the competitiveness between the two.
I completed a re-watch, as I am sure a lot of people did in anticipation of TFA and actually found little to dislike about Anakin's portrayal in the films. Haydn's great as far as I'm concened. I looked at it really really closely so I could be ready for what 'proper acting' woud look like and found much of it fine. I think people forget who this guy actually is during most of the movies. It's a young Darth Vader f.f.s ! Imagine having to write and protray that !?!
And this ' turn to quick' nonesense can only come from people not watching the films properly. Obviously if you hate him and have no sympathy for him, it looks like he turns on a dime because you have been mainly watching the ceiling up to that point. Watch properly though and you see a perfect gradient of his emotions interacting with an escalating dangerous scenario he is put in the centre of by a grooming, psycho, duplicitous deranged mad monk.
That's not his turn after saving Palpatine, that is him being finally consumed by a process started long a go, as soon as Palpatine got his mits on him as a little boy. This is dark stuff, Lucas is not messing about - it really is grooming. That's the acid finally kicking in. Maybe the curve is a little to exponetial, but isn't that what Yoda said about that path?
It's funny all this 'wanting it to be dark' complaint when in fact there is a better reception for more Buffy style wise crackery.
Sorry if you hate the fims, but if they are your bag you get to see a little an optomistic talented little kid get poisoned by dark kool-aid and go all Hitler via Manson.
Imagine that being pitched without the OT being made?
George you is crazy, good job on finding the right people to perform this little play.
I've finished AOTC (with deleted scenes which actually show some good chemistry between him and Natalie) and I agree. Even though he's a bit unsure at times or overacting but I can't remember a single instance where I can't read his emotions. He wasn't very experienced but neither was he wooden.
And I do think he nailed Tusken camp scenes and the confession... but feel free to disagree.
I feel that for many Star Wars fans the acceptable level of storytelling is either something very simple or Nolanesque dialogues that spell everything for you so that you don't have to think too much (no offense to those who do feel that Star Wars should be a more simple coming of age story). I had a weird experience with my Mom after watching ROTS. She likes more serious cinema - Lynch, Lars von Trier, and not generally into blockbusters at all. She watched Star Wars and LOTR with me mostly because she knew I was a fan. So, she said "Poor Anakin. He was a slave as a boy and then became a slave of his passions and a marionette of the Jedi and Palpatine. He thought freedom was about controlling everything, including life itself". I was like "Whoah... and she remembers all this after watching TPM once six years ago? How come so many SW fans miss it then?". My mother is an old-fashioned viewer who's used to look for clues (not just in dialogue, but visuals, etc.) and Star Wars is a very old fashioned saga in that respect.
Well me to. I'm not into blockbusters either, just Star Wars. LOTR only because I loved the book. I think although George with the OT incorporated plenty of 'serious cinema', he decided to tip the balance futher back a bit to his pre Star Wars serious style with the PT. Problem with this view is that you end up concluding that Disney's tilt back the other way proves this, in that a 'less serious' style is more of a winner- and end up sounding like a snob, but here with conversations with people like Cryogenic just as a random example, I find that view supported as he similarly reminds us of Lucas's avant gaurde background, and you mention Lynch etc, and Lucas has bleated on since making ANH about going back to making less popular experimental films, and has even said in the past he would be happy being 'free to fail'.
On the red carpet he went back to this again answering that he would make now films nobody would probably see.
Sure he wanted his money back, and he was wrapping up his message in an enjoyable spectacle, but he didn't budge an inch in sticking to this idea of telling it 'his way'. Take it or leave it. He just expected I guess that dissenters would actually just leave it. If he is guilty of one thing it is perhaps not realising that because of the size of the former project and it's cutural depth - he wouldn't be allowed that artistic freedom though he had earned it financially. That I think maybe he does not understand - not his films -but the nature of fandom. Not actually that uncommon a trait in artists. If they did they would think about it to much, and that feeds back and..well....
Anakin is very rude towards battledroids.
but very kind to clone troopers, and wants to help them out
Mace Windu said "U think it is this boy" when they brought up the prophecy and stuff. why didnt Windu Teach him or Yoda.
Yoda sensed something in him his future was clouded or something like that.
Why doesnt Yoda teach him he could have saved him.
and if Anakins fall still happened then he would not have survived Mustafar because he would be fighting with Yoda.
Imagine that the Mustafar fight with Yoda haha
That would be TOO MUCH epicness for one film
I like how Anakin was this purely mythical character in the OT (in essence) and we really knew little about him.
But then George made the prequels and brought him bursting to life, with all these subtle shades and hues, and he became one of the most compelling screen protagonists/antagonists, ever.
Thanks for the shout-out.
Star Wars has always been abstract: an excuse to sneak avant-garde ideas into a "mainstream" package.
And Lucas did brilliantly with that. Unfortunately, he remains under-appreciated as an artist and a human being, and I'm reminded of this tart quotation:
"When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
One thing for sure, Disney is not going to remake the prequels any time soon (not in the live action film format anyway). Even if you had three movies of Anakin and Obi-Wan on some fun adventures for three movies it's still going to end up with them trying to kill each other and the Republic and the Jedi betrayed. And how can you show Palpatine's rise to power without any political scenes? No one wants to see that story, not for the second time anyway. Lucas made money with the prequels because of the scarcity of Star Wars and everyone being curious about the backstory. Besides, they know they're not going to beat ROTS anyway
Star Wars was absolutely an experimental movie in 1977 (even most of George's friends and colleagues were baffled by it) but, ironically, it (and the rest of the OT) redefined the blockbuster genre so that the fans (maybe less the public) demanded more of the same instead of letting him to experiment more instead of copying what's still the second highest attended film in the American movie history.
That actually is the whole 'saga' of Lucas in a nutshell - the experimental film maker who created a popular monster that ultimately destroyed him. Financially not obviously, nor with his health thank god, but deep down he has to be somewhat bamboozled by what happened.
Maybe not. I would love to think it's largely untouched him and that he is happy he connected with enough people in the way he wanted to to ignore the others, but I think the cracks showed a little at the hand over.
But yes it is the irony that is entertaining, especially since I thought what everyone was clamouring for was the experimentalism of the OT, not the popularisms. I though ESB was the bar to jump, but it seams nobody is bothered how things compare there, only with who was the whiniest - Anakin or Kylo?
He absolutely is. I don't care what the haters say, the prequels did have some cultural impact (if not as much as the OT) and the character of Anakin is probably number one thing, whether as Vader's alter ego or separately, as a fallen hero. Regardless of what you think of the actual execution of his fall in the prequels, the character has definitely become a unique archetype of a hero who becomes villain and then comes back to light.
In one of his World War I episodes, Dan Carlin (Harcore history podcasts) compares pre-WWI Germany to Anakin Skywalker's fall: great potential in terms of science, technology, culture, all wasted and turned to evil in the first half of the 20th century. He wasn't like "Yeah I know guys the prequels sucked but Anakin's story would have been great if only Lucas let someone else write/direct..." He might not even like the movies for all I know (although I strongly suspect he should love Palpatine's rise to power if nothing else). He just made a comparison without providing much explanation as if he fully expected the listeners to easily pick up on his meaning.
Yeah, I think HC's performance is underrated. It's important to remember that he's playing a character that has already been established in previous films. Hayden's delivery isn't wooden so much as it is just very deliberate. James Earl Jones has that great booming deep voice that Hayden didn't try to duplicate, but he did capture the rhythm and pace JEJ used. Try taking any of HC's lines and imagine them delivered by JEJ ... in my mind they always seem to match up beat for beat. I always felt like Anakin was masking his feelings rather than controlling them. He usually managed to keep his voice on a very calm, even keel, but his face always betrayed him. When an actor's performance initially bothers me, I always try to ask myself if it's really bad acting, or is the actor just playing a different character than I wanted him to? In this case, I think it's not the performance that's stiff, it's the character.
I also thought his turn to the dark side was handled well. It's true that it happened when Anakin faced a critical moment of decision, but everything we'd seen of the character of Anakin up to that point should have made it clear to us which way that decision was going to go. His reaction to his mother's death after his dreams had warned him she was in trouble, and then a few years later facing the same dreams about Padme ... Anakin didn't turn to the dark side in Palpatine's office when he cut off Mace's hand. He had already turned by then, he just hadn't admitted it to himself. He turned to the dark side in the Jedi Council chamber, during that great wordless scene of Anakin and Padme gazing at each other across a city ... when he decided that he would do anything at all to save Padme. That was the moment he was doomed.
Yes. Possibly. But I think that might be putting it a touch melodramatically. Lucas got out what he wanted to say and do with the existing six. Going back to Star Wars to tell the backstory -- unimpeded -- was his finest hour. Listen to his remarks on the ROTS commentary track over the end credits. They give a very strong impression of Lucas' contentedness.
The funniest and wittiest occurrence is how Star Wars as a whole has somewhat devoured him; it's taken a very big bite, at the least. Think of all that consumption imagery in the existing six. You know, I need to patent that phrase: existing six. Even George isn't immune to the strange properties of his creation.
Anyway, what's interesting is how much of an influence George seems to still be trying to exert, behind the scenes, Emperor-like. Study his remarks in that awkward micro-interview from the other day. It's clear he still has a paternalistic attitude toward his creation. I think he's quite determined to nudge it (as best he can) in the proper direction.
Fantastically put, Natalie! Yes, indeed. Anakin is somehow both a classic and a modern example -- a monad -- for cultural angst. Other films play around with this sort of archetype, but Anakin is the real deal. Polished, yet raw. Stylized, yet real. Abstract, yet palpable.
What a great anecdote! Loving it. A much less lofty example comes from my own personal experience. Some years ago (2008), I was working somewhere with a slightly younger guy (we got on really well -- but he left after a short while), who several times cited a friend of his who compared a footballer (soccer) to Anakin Skywalker. He would chuckle at the hyperbolic nature of his friend's comparison. But as in your example, there was never any value judgement about the movies either way. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever asked him for his opinion of the movies. Lost opportunity. Ah, well. But these movies have definitely drifted into popular culture, thanks in no small part to their central protagonist.
"How 'Wude!" - Darth Jar Jar
I think this is a very enlightened viewpoint, and one I wish others would share. It's a fine art to play someone who we've only seen (on screen at least) either as a young child or as a man whose face is constantly hidden. Hayden's job was difficult, and I'd have to agree that his precision in speech was a choice well made. His speech patterns do match those of Vader, who speaks almost archaically and very formally. Before Hayden, there was this giant gap between that tone and the tone of a nine year old boy. That's a lot of character development which has to alternately continue and create.
People are fond of reducing characters to a few significant traits. The problem with that is that, as portrayed on screen and in literature, Anakin, as with most major characters in SW, is far from two dimensional. People remember him for his worst traits, his arrogance, his temper. While they are consistently seen, we tend to forget the finesse which HC also conveyed his caring and rashly idealistic nature, his firm protectiveness, his ability to joke. One thing, which I think is forgotten (or ignored) most consistently when people analyze him is the fact that his lived the formative years of his life as a slave. Everyone loves to ignore all the character traits which are inherently derived from that one fact. Anakin is derisive of the word 'Master' and doesn't like to be told what to do. All of this makes perfect sense in context with his back story. Hayden plays it very well too, especially in his portrayal of Anakin's reaction to situations wherein he feels helpless. As a freed slave, one would imagine that he would never want to be helpless again, and the frustration that comes with it is two fold that of a normal Jedi, because they have not had the experience of true helplessness that Anakin has. In many ways, he begins more worldly and cynical than anyone else in the order.
Glad to see that their are others who share my view on Anakin Skywalker "The character" and Haydens overall potrayal of him. Anakin has to be my absolute favorite character in SW. Because I had grown up with the PT, I've always thought of SW as Anakins Story. Vader played such a huge role in both trilogys so it really makes me happy to see how big of a role Vaders legacy plays in the story of TFA and will most likely play in the films to come (maybe a Rouge one appearance aswell?)....
I'm a huge fan of the Darth Plagueis theory for various reasons, one of which is his possible role in Anakins conception, something we havent had explained in the film's (btw the novel is great). I think im looking forward to episode 8 more than I ever had for 7. Should Snoke turn out to be DP I hope episode 8 is when we get the big reveal aswell as the full backstory on the creation of Anakin and the prophecy of the "chosen one".
Alot of people who seem to want to believe that Rey could be the new "chosen one" something I believe to be absolutely ludicrous, there was only one and its Anakin. All of the strength the Skywalkers have in the force originates from him and to change the prophecy imo would be taking away from GL's vision.
I'm excited for 8 for so many reasons but what I'm looking forward to the most is the possible return of Anakin Skywalker (as a force ghost and/or flashback). I think it'd be such a great way to tie all three trilogys together!!
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