Anakin, you idiot!

Darth Sinister:

Sorry, i have a tendency of reading responses in the thread and reponding without referring to them.

 

Anakin says to Palps at the Opera
"I do admit my trust in them (the Jedi Counci) has been shaken."

So of course, he buys the Jedi Rebellion. They say that they are going to have to take over the Senate in order to ensure a smooth transition which prompts Yoda to say "To a dark place this line of thinking takes us. Great care we must take."

 

I don't think Anakin was stupid, or even blinded by "love." I'm sure he had doubts about Palpatine but he just didn't care. Palpatine stroked his ego (all that praise in AOTC) and told him what he wanted to hear, and that's all that mattered.

Palps was the one who egged him on to kill Dooku. Would a "good" person have done that? No, but Anakin really - deep inside - wanted to kill Dooku. Anakin kew it was wrong to do so (so he's not stupid), and he didn't do it out of "love" for Padme (so he wasn't blinded by love). But he did it anyway, and Palpatine the "enabler" encouraged him to follow this dark path. Because Anakin knew it was wrong, he surely knew Palpatine, by encouraging it, was capable of evil too. He jsut didn't care.

Anakin wants what Anakin wants, like a spoiled selfish child. But that doesn't equate to stupidity or love. I think his downfall was ego and love of power, not stupidity or love for his wife.

 

young love gone bad...

 

It's the dark side's fault. The dark side made me do it.

 

I dont think he cared about the war.

This is what the people in the Sidious vs. Mace thread dont seem to understand.....Anakin's concern was Padme, he didnt care about traitors or the jedi or the sith...only Padme.

Everything else that happens to him after that happens because he "started down the dark path".

 

I think he had become more ambivilent to both factions (both Jedi and Palaptine) because of the place they had put him, i.e. the middle. After that he seems to want only to save Padme. I do still believe that Obi-Wan might have made a difference, though. But you're right, r8hitman, after he started down that path, there wasn't a lot to stop it.

 

I dont think he cared about the war.

This is what the people in the Sidious vs. Mace thread dont seem to understand.....Anakin's concern was Padme, he didnt care about traitors or the jedi or the sith...only Padme.

Everything else that happens to him after that happens because he "started down the dark path".[/quote]

It dont think that's entirely true. Palpatine told Anakin "You have always searched for a life of significance and purpose". He wanted absolute power. "I will be the most powerful jedi ever!" It was partly due to Padme, but not the only reason.

 

"So we have this little picnic where Anakin brings out the uncomfortable subject of previous boyfriends which boys have a tendency to do, and then we get into this political discussion which allows us to get a little insight into Anakin and Palpatine's influence over Anakin and some of his thought process."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.



ANAKIN: "At last, we'll be able to capture that monster and end this war."

PALPATINE: "We must move quickly. The Jedi are relentless; if they are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end. First, I want you to go to the Jedi Temple. We will catch them off balance. Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save Padme."

ANAKIN: "What about the other Jedi spread across the galaxy?"

PALPATINE: Their betrayal will be dealt with. After you have killed all the Jedi in the Temple, go to the Mustafar system. Wipe out Viceroy Gunray and the other Separatist leaders. Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace."

ANAKIN: "Have faith, my love. Everything will soon be set right. The Chancellor has given me a very important mission. The Separatists have gathered in the Mustafar system. I'm going there to end this war. Wait for me until I return . . . things will be different, I promise."


ANAKIN: "Don't lecture me, Obi-Wan. I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, justice, freedom, and security to my new Empire."


As pointed out, Anakin did care about ending the war. But only as a means of ensuring that Palpatine remains in charge, so that he can have the power to rule the galaxy and save Padme.

 

Someone with the IQ of a noodle constructed C3po.....right.

Since when does someone's IQ have anything to do with the coices they make in life? I bet Palaptine was no dummy.

 

The real reason he's an idiot is because he couldn't see that his turn to the dark side is what ultimately caused her death in the first place, not that it would save her from it.

He never had the insight to realize his visions consequences.

But then again I was reading an article the other day that said the part of the human brain that develops the realization of consequences doesn't fully finish developing until the age of 25. SO I find it less difficult to believe.

It's so easy for someone on the outside looking in to judge why Anakins choices were stupid but it's different when you're the one in the position.

 

he was so much in love he lost his I.Q and senses. Plus Sidious didn't know how to save padme so he lied. He said together they would find it. He never kew himself. Also if i were anakin i would have killed Sidious right after he said padme died.

 

[image=http://www.dur.ac.uk/j.m.trowsdale/ren-stimpy2.gif]

Anakin, you idiot!

 

That's what you get when you think with the little head.

 

lol at Achilles

 

"If I were Anakin I would've killed Sidious right after he told me Padme died"

Yes, but the sad and tragic part is that he is no longer stronger than Sidious. Like someone said, it's easy to say Anakin was "stupid" to do this and that, but if you were in his situation and if you were in his emotional state with all the issues he had with him since he was a child, you would probably not even realize you're going down the dark path. You wouldn't make the connection that she dies because you turned Sith. All you're thinking is about the horrible experience you had with your mother dying and how helpless and powerless you felt and you don't want to repeat it.

Anakin really is a tragic hero. How would you feel if you were a slave and all you had was your mother, then somebody comes and frees only you, you promise to come back for her, then everyone is telling you you're the chosen one and that you're supposed to be GREAT etc etc, including Palpatine who becomes the only person you trust and like.

So your ego is through the roof and you think you're the best (and you are). Then you go back to your mother and you're too late after your master just shrugs off your nightmares about her dying. You feel guilt, anger at the Council, and that you're being held back coz you couldn't save her etc etc. Now you start having dreams about your wife dying, the only one who loved you EVEN after you told her about the Sandpeople, the Jedi do nothing to help you AGAIN, and even asks you to spy on your friend and deny you level of Master even though you feel you can whip Mace's a**.

You feel desperate because Padme's going to die if you don't do something soon so you want answers, at that right moment your friend Palps tells you the only way to save someone is to turn to the darkside. You wonder how the hell does he know about the darkside but the thought consumes you and the knowledge that there is MORE to the Force than the Jedi has taught you seduces you and you're halfway Sith already with this thinking but you don't know it.

Then your friend tells you he's a Sith Lord, you realize he's been lying to you and the Jedi through the whole PT, you get really angry and want to kill him or turn him over, but he basically says, you're lying to yourself, you're interested in learning other stronger powers of the Force that you will never learn from the Jedi and if you kill me, you're killing the knowledge and you will be responsible for killing Padme. Deep down you want to learn these powers so you will fulfill your destiny and be the strongest Force user in the universe AND can save your wife from death if you knew both the dark side and light side of the Force. You make your decision in the split second Mace is about to kill the one who can teach you these powers. You basically burned your bridges, there's no way the Jedi will let you back into their fold when you betrayed Mace.

This is the part, though, that you should've used a little of your brains and realized that Palps had NO IDEA of how to save her and lied to you. But you're too consumed with guilt over what you did with Mace, Palps becomes the only ally you have, plus, you can always kill him later AFTER he teaches you stuff about the darkside. You will FIGURE out how to prevent death AFTER you go through the trial of killing all your enemies off before they kill you. You're using the excuse of the Jedi Rebellion to keep yourself from THINKING about what you're doing, you're just reacting and fulfilling orders like a MACHINE in order to gain more power. **And maybe secretly, you're liking the feeling of the power your anger is giving you, you feel stronger and more focused than you ever had with the Jedi.

So you kill the Jedi and younglings and the Separatists, all the while deceiving yourself that they are all your enemies and they are the last obstacle to your path of true POWER over the universe and death. No one can make you a slave, tell you what to do, and take people you care about away from you because you are the most powerful in the G

 

Great post Jedi-Atreides!!

It is very tragic indeed, i dont think Anakin is dim-witted but the truth was right in front of his face, and it just sucks he could not realize it and prevent the galaxy from falling apart.

But then again, its a good thing he did, because we wouldnt have such an epic story like this touch our lives.....and of course, no Bad-A$$ Vader

 

The funny thing is that this story has been laid out for decades in GL's mind. It was just a matter of telling that story through film.

Remember Vader came before Anakin in the order of telling this story and that's what gives all of this it's emotional power and strength. Any other order and it wouldn't be the influence that it is.

You can have no Vader without Anakins choices being predetermined to go this direction.

 

I am actually a bit dizzy after reading all those exchanged arguments. Please led me add that Palpatine is a sort of father figure to Anakin. He did nurture and prosper him for a rather long time, especially in the Clone Wars. (Sorry for bringing EU into this discussion!) By doing so, he did whisper the wrong things into Annies ears. Of course the lad did buy the Jedi rebellion! It did also suit his plans to help Padme.

 

"Love blinded him..."

Love???!!!

Hell no.... that's not love. That's obsession... a childish whim...

 

Clearly he was "deceived by a lie". But if someone would just explain to him that Palpatine, a Sith Lord , sided with Count Dooku, the Seperatist leader, to create the war.

Emotion clouded his judgement.

 

I dont understand the cracks against Anakin's IQ. It has nothing to do with how intelligent he is. He was confused and angry at alot of things that were happening. Everyone was trying to use him in one way or another and his hands were tied at all ends.

The Jedi are holding me back, I'm supposed to be the savior here right?

My own master is leary of my power, he knows I'm ahead of him.

Master Yoda thinks the "Chosen One" prophesy was misread. Yeah right.

The Jedi Council doesnt trust me. Master Windu really doesnt.

Obi Wan may be onto my secrets, I can't hide my thoughts.

I cant sleep at night, I'm having visions I can't control.

My wife is dying in these visions - just like my mother did.

Screw that. I'm not loosing her like I lost my mother.

Padme thinks everything will be fine bvut I know better.

She can't see probable futures and read minds but I CAN.

The Jedi are not giving me everything I need to be "The Chosen One"

I KNOW there are things they are NOT telling me. I'm not STUPID.

I'm all powerful and omnipotent but I want MORE. MORE POWER DAMMIT.

I am more powerful than any Jedi, I am the hero of the Clone Wars, I know as much as I can possibly know about being a Jedi and I still want... MORE. CAN'T ANYBODY UNDERSTAND??!!

"I undersatnd Anakin... more than you know. Lemme tell you this old legend about the Sith - those other force users."

"They're evil devils right, that's what the Jedi say."

"How would you REALLY know, have you ever met one?"

"No but, the Jedi wouldnt lie. Would they?"

"You tell me. I'm a Sith and were friends. I mean in 13 years, have I ever lied to you or steered you wrong."

"Good point."

So everyone is at odds with these issues except my only friend and confidant... Palpatine. So what he is the devil, I'm stronger than him and when I'm done getting control over this "end of war mess" I'm going to take all his knowledge of power and take over. Screw the Jedi and anyone else, I need to do this for Padme, my baby and the fate of the galaxy.

I dont see how any of that could mistaken for what it is. And anybody knows once a cloud is over you and you're fighting friends and family and everybody else who is telling you bad things - nothing else matters, only coming out on top.

That's all Anakin was trying to do. It wasnt just about love and Padme, that was just the final major straw. That was all the motivation he needed to make his own destiny.
oNE

 

Lies? More like Bending the truth. The Jedi did lie, they wanted to take control (For the Republic, yeah right).

 

Love blinded him(as Padme' said) and he wanted her to live.

 

Well, Palpatine clouded everybody's minds on the Jedi Council. Including Yoda and Mace, for a long time.

With Anakin, he acted as if he was just on his side. He played devil's advocate, when he was the devil. He listened to the whining, and said he understood. He took total advantage of a damaged person. It was probably more difficult to get the other players to put Anakin in the position he was in than to actually pull Ankakin himself along.