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PT Anakin's Characterization in the Prequels vs TCW

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by MissAlyssa, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. MissAlyssa

    MissAlyssa Jedi Youngling

    Feb 1, 2020
    I have to admit, I didn't know that there even was a Clone Wars series until I started to read about Star Wars online. This series is very popular among fans and many recommend watching it. One thing I have been hearing is how it "helps" with Anakin's characterization. I decided I need to see what everyone is talking about.

    I do think it's an enjoyable series, to a certain extent. It doesn't "feel" like it's actually part of the movie universe, for me though. The Mandalorian does, but this series just doesn't capture the same energy. I think the character of Ahsoka is probably the best and most interesting in the series. I don't know if I will continue to watch, but if I do it would be for her story.

    And that leads me to two things, Obi Wan seems to just be too goofy (the voice actor is very good though, sounds a lot like Ewan) and Anakin misses the mark completely. It is as if they took everything that made him unique and then stripped it all away. I think the prequels handle him much better.

    1. Anakin having a padawan. Yes, I like Ahsoka. No, I do not think it makes any sense for her to be his padawan. She could've just been any random master's padawan who interacted with Anakin and Obi Wan frequently. TCW Anakin is supposed to be 19, this is coming off of AotC. I cannot wrap my mind around the council giving Anakin a padawan in RotS, much less the very brash and reckless 19 year old Anakin who was just a padawan himself. I also don't like what it does to his dynamic with Obi Wan, as Anakin is always presented to be the learner and him the teacher, even in RotS. It's like they're trying to rush him to this parental state of maturity that doesn't fit his character and hardly even works on the tv show.

    2. Anakin slaughtered all those Tusken Raiders when his mother died in the movies and I cannot picture TCW character doing any of that. I can't perceive that darkness lurking inside of him. Maybe because it aired on cartoon network, so they couldn't fully delve into his psyche, but he just doesn't come off like someone who held his mother in his arms as she died and raged against the entire world. I don't see him carrying those emotional scars. He doesn't feel like he could go on to become Palpatine's apprentice and slay younglings. I can't see him on Mustafar, unhinged and losing it.

    3. He just seems really aggressive and macho, without the nuance behind it. I'll use AotC as an example, when Anakin has the conversation with Padme about the Tusken Raiders, he's angry. But, that's not the only emotion he felt. You can hear the pain and anguish in his voice. See that part of him hates himself because he feels disappointed in his actions, but he can't even conquer his hatred and still feels justified. It causes him to say "he's better than that," while knowing he's not. That feeds into his insecurities and lust for power. Or on Mustafar, the look on his face after he slaughters the separatists and fully gives into the darkside. There's just a lot going on inside of him and his emotions are much more complex than "I'm mad" or "I'm sad." TCW Anakin just seems so reductive.

    4. Anakin exists in a state of conflict and duality. He is constantly battling against his inner darkness and trying to be a good Jedi. He can hate just as strongly as he loves. To remove that from him, is to make him a generic and normal hero. A normal, generic hero will not turn to the darkside. Why erase that part of him? To make him more "likable?" To market him to kids? I find it very bland and disappointing. He's more like a mix of Luke/Han than Anakin. It's just not prequel Anakin.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  2. TheCloneWarsForever

    TheCloneWarsForever Force Ghost star 7

    Apr 24, 2018
    The conflict and duality comes into play later in the series. The early seasons do show a much sunnier Anakin that feels much more like a growup version of the TPM Anakin that skipped over AOTC. The "mix of Luke/Han" analogy is more on the nose than you know. A "mix of Luke/Han" was exactly how Matt Lanter was directed to do the voice in his audition.

    Lucas did express regret that the more heroic side of Anakin didn't come through in the prequels. The Matt Lanter Anakin was the result of that. You're not the first to notice that this seems more like a mulligan on Anakin's arc. I think that's true even if Lucas never said it outright. Many TCW fans are aware of that and love the show despite that (or maybe because of it.)

    But good call on Ahsoka. She's much more than just a foil to develop Anakin's character. I think the popularity of that character went a long way towards emboldening the showrunners of the subsequent shows to focus on new characters and not rely on the classic movie characters over and over.
  3. MissAlyssa

    MissAlyssa Jedi Youngling

    Feb 1, 2020
    I'm surprised, but I shouldn't be because I felt it. He came off that way immediately. The innate goodness, heroism and naivety of Luke, with Han's temperament so he still manages to have retain some sort of edge. To me, it's entirely generic and utterly disappointing. Might as well watch a Marvel movie. I prefer Lucas's take in the movies, he wanted something more brooding and flawed. I don't know if I could connect to the prequels if Anakin was just a Luke/Han blend. Adds nothing new.

    In some ways, she takes on the role Anakin did in the prequels.(For instance, when Anakin and Obi Wan bicker about their duty to Padme. Obi Wan just wants to guard her because that's what the council says, Anakin thinks they need to find out who is trying to killer her and that's a natural repercussion of attempting to guard her. It's better to take preventative measures.) The thing I liked the best was seeing Ahsoka question things, offering a different perspective and being held back/punished for it. If I do watch, it would be to see her gain her independence and agency.
    Deliveranze and Valiowk like this.
  4. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Knight star 3

    Aug 11, 2019
    I never understood why the Jedi would allow Anakin to have a padawan. I mean, they didn't regard him in the say way they regarded the younger Obi-Wan. And I found the portrayal of Anakin's hints of becoming evil rather heavy-handed. It didn't really jibe with the guy who spent three years harboring guilt over his killing of the Tuskens. Something that the first half hour of "Revenge of the Sith" had established.
  5. Valiowk

    Valiowk Force Ghost star 6

    Apr 23, 2000
    Thank you very much for starting this thread about some of the biggest details in TCW (and certainly the one that seems to be most talked about) that I have difficulty reconciling with the prequels. I could not agree more with you.

    I also haven't watched a lot of TCW, and like you, watched parts of it to see this 'how it "helps" with Anakin's characterization' thing that everyone had been talking about. I chose some highly regarded arcs to watch (Mortis arc in S3, Yoda arc in S6, Satine arc in S2&5, Rako Hardeen arc in S4). The general feelings that I came away with were: 1) some of these stories are very interesting, but their characterizations and plot don't really mesh well with the films, 2) the pacing is much poorer than in the films: some of the arcs feel really long (they are, after all, multi-episode), but the consequences of their events don't seem to be explored in great depth (both due to the restriction imposed by the length of an individual episode, but also because quite a bit of each episode just seems to be 'filler' material), and hence I always end up feeling unsatisfied with the extent of developments at the end of each arc.

    I wish TCW had addressed Anakin's knighting, because I think it's important for a series set during the Clone Wars to show how Anakin matured sufficiently that he could take on the responsibilities of a Jedi Knight (in particular, no longer be mentored). The 2003 Clone Wars made a hash out of this by having Obi-Wan recommend a still rather immature Anakin for knighting without having to take the Trials (!), when the impression one receives from AotC and RotS is exactly the opposite - that Obi-Wan was so severe on Anakin in AotC because he was trying to straighten out Anakin's flaws so that he would be ready for the responsibilities of a Jedi Knight, and Obi-Wan did so much between AotC and Anakin's knighting to straighten out Anakin's remaining flaws as much as possible before Anakin was knighted.

    Completely agree - the Anakin of TCW is 'nice' and has a normal, non-mercurial personality to the point that I can't see him becoming Darth Vader, which defeats the purpose of his characterization.

    The more heroic side of Anakin came through to me, at least, in the PT. For all that Anakin grew up as a slave who had seen the ugly side of society, he was actually very idealistic. That's why he says 'I'm a Jedi. I know better than this.' and 'I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way.' When he makes a mistake, knows full well that he made a mistake, and strives to do better the next time, there's an ideal there that he's aiming for that lesser people would have just said 'to hell with it' in response to.

    P. S. 'She could've just been any random master's padawan who interacted with Anakin and Obi Wan frequently.' is exactly how I somehow ended up regarding Ahsoka throughout all the episodes I watched. It doesn't matter that she called Anakin 'Master' and she was referred to as Anakin's Padawan: that detail somehow totally didn't truly register for me, because we also never really see Anakin teaching Ahsoka things the way Qui-Gon taught Obi-Wan or Obi-Wan taught Anakin.

    P. P. S. TCW fans will probably think this is sacrilege, but I was actually really disappointed at how the Mortis arc played up Anakin's status as the Chosen One to an extreme. One of the ideas that the films convey is that being the Chosen One is nothing compared to sheer strength of will. Anakin fulfils the prophecy, but not because the prophecy is going to come true regardless of what one does; rather, the prophecy was fulfilled because of all the effort that Luke, Obi-Wan and Yoda did to bring things towards that direction. To turn the story direction into 'this is the Chosen One, who is more special than others' stomps on the importance of effort.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  6. MissAlyssa

    MissAlyssa Jedi Youngling

    Feb 1, 2020
    Good point. That part was completely missing. Just like the Force needs balance, Anakin, himself, was searching for that.

    I think this would've been a cool way to slowly bridge the changes in AotC Anakin and RotS Anakin. We know he wanted to be a knight and the fact that Obi Wan wouldn't allow it left him frustrated, so why not have that be an objective that forces him to mature? In my mind, that makes so much more sense than making him a paternal figure as a way to unnaturally force the theme. I also think it's kinda weird he's a knight at 19, when Obi Wan was knighted at 25. Yes, Anakin is very powerful and naturally skilled, but when the prequels first aired I never could've imagined that he was knighted immediately following his wildness, rebellious stage as a teen. I thought it probably happened a year max before RotS.

    Also no way Obi Wan being okay with Anakin being knighted without taking the trials.

    Agreed. I think it's a pretty standard, but kind of superficial, view of heroism that's represented. It is much more interesting to see him fight against his baser instincts and use the Jedi code as his own moral code. Then it makes sense how once he loses faith in the Jedi, he begins to lose his hold on his own morality. Like it's more interesting to see Luke throw away his saber and win with compassion, he didn't need to have a big moment where he beat Palpatine. That's how I've always viewed and why I like Star Wars so much.

    But, if you want to see the standard acts of heroism, the first 20 minutes of RotS are dedicated to it. Anakin (1) wants to save the clones, but is told he must focus on his duty, (2) dodges an attack when Obi cannot, (3) refuses to leave Obi and saves him from buzz droids, (4) single-handedly defeats Dooku and saves Palpatine, (5) refuses to leave unconscious Obi and literally carries him on his back, and (6) lands a half of a ship that is on fire. I thought Lucas did more than enough to show us he can perform those typical heroic feats before getting to the more interesting parts of Anakin's story.

    I also watched this one. I'm mixed on it. I like the general idea and that it showed us the Force is composed of both light and dark, but I agree that it negates a bit of the free will aspect. I think of when Padme asks Anakin if he's a slave and responds that he's a person. I always thought it was a choice to never have him once acknowledge his status as the Chosen One in the movies, because he saw himself as a person, first and foremost. Being the Chosen One never informed his choices, even when it came to saving Luke. It was his will and that led to the prophecy being fulfilled, even when everyone had lost fate in him even being the Chosen One.
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  7. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 28, 2015
    I agree. I think what makes everything even more jarring is how Anakin is younger now in Canon than he was in Legends and the timeline being shortened.

    In Legends, Anakin was born in 42 BBY, with his 10th birthday being around the end of TPM, meaning he was 20 in AOTC and 23 in ROTS, mirroring the age of Luke in ROTJ who is also 23. However, in canon, Anakin is now born in 41 BBY, meaning he is a year younger in both AOTC (19) and ROTS (22).

    Also in Legends, TCW movie took place a year after AOTC, giving Anakin some time to grow and have a character arc, but in canon, the movie takes place two months after AOTC.

    Making Anakin younger and closing the gap between AOTC and TCW just makes everything more jarring.

    I also like how the PT and CW multimedia project added to Anakin's character arc. Before the PT, Anakin had 1 character arc. He was a good man who became a evil person. The PT actually gave Anakin 2 character arcs. The standard Luke journey from naive, immature teenager to Jedi Knight and then to Sith Lord. It made Anakin feel more realized and realistic. I cant watch TCW Anakin and be like "Yep. That's a 19-20 year old."
  8. Triad Moons

    Triad Moons Jedi Knight star 1

    Jan 14, 2020
    Ahsoka is really TCW's saving grace (IMHO) once they figured which direction they want to take with her following the first couple seasons, but you're not wrong about the show's mood, though. I don't remember where I heard this, but I remember someone telling me that LucasFilm wanted the show to have a kind of Thunderbirds-vibe with regard to its tone and design (which is not the show's strong point barring certain characters).

    There's a lot about the writing that seems more discombobulated than say the regular inconsistencies you might find in a Clone Wars-Era EU novel that was released in-between AOTC and ROTS. I think what bothers me about some of the storytelling with regard to the conflict, is how the show strains what could've possibly happened during that period of time (three years), to the point where plot and characterization threaten to or do step on the toes of what they're meant to follow-up or prelude (AOTC, ROTS and onward). I've more or less reconciled that frustration by just considering TCW as its own singular universe set-apart from the films, novels or LucasArt games. I'm not crazy about their take on Obi-Wan (either) but I've made peace with that a while ago.

    I don't have too much problem with how Anakin is portrayed in the series, but bringing it back around to how the writing strains or teeters close to overthrowing what it preludes, Lanter and Christiansen's performances really needed a bridging point to make Anakin feel just a little more unified, I guess (his portrayal in the 2003 miniseries is closer to his movie iteration). Passage of time and maturity aside, the show is definitely part of why I went from ambivalent toward (teen/adult) Anakin to outright liking him.

    But the way TCW tends to foreshadows his fall to the Dark Side is not great, lending itself to unnecessary convolution as opposed to something natural to the story (the Mortis arc is the biggest offender in this). The show goes to ridiculous lengths to give Anakin plot amnesia to not to threaten ROTS and AOTC. Genndy Tartakovsky, in the end, probably nails the foreshadowing better (at least in comparison to what AOTC does for Anakin's first steps) because it's barely a focus of the miniseries.

    I think Ahsoka would've worked better as a Padawan that Anakin befriended during the war (and we would've lost none of the significance of their dynamic), but, she is one of many examples of AOTC-era characters being altered dramatically by...certain creative decisions or new cast additions.

    Anakin ultimately becomes a far more grounded character with less of a reason to confide in Palpatine with Ahsoka around doing what Obi-Wan and Padme weren't allowed to in ROTS or AOTC, even as she grows apart from him as a character later on. I know they try to correct that by having her leave the Order and Anakin doubt her but it doesn't quite hit the mark. I like both versions of the character, but TCW Anakin is a consequence of trying to stuff as many ideas as possible into a three year window in seven-season show without real constraint or forethought.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  9. Valiowk

    Valiowk Force Ghost star 6

    Apr 23, 2000
    Yeah, I've also found that the only way I can enjoy the episodes of TCW I've seen for what they are is to regard TCW as taking place in an alternate universe from the films and other EU material. Also glad to know that I'm not the only person who found Obi-Wan in TCW overdone (especially the trolling).

    Agreed. I've found that in order to foreshadow the events of RotS, TCW repeats a lot of the plot points in the films, and its own take on those points isn't necessarily better. Repetition isn't necessarily good, especially if one can't make it rhyme well like poetry. (Obi-Wan says that politicians are not to be trusted, but once had romantic feelings for one anyway? Huh?)

    Yes, one does get the feeling that TCW became a dumping ground for all the ideas that the team wanted to explore and thought they would never have the chance to do so in any other film or television show. I felt this strongly when I watched the Yoda arc in S6 - it was as though the team absolutely had to get this content aired while there was still the chance, otherwise there might never be the chance of canonising it in film or television. This is one of the reasons why I tend to be a bit wary of Star Wars in television series format, because the number of seasons that are planned would affect the kind of story one can tell, and producing a different number of seasons than initially planned can result in stories that feel either incomplete or lacking constraint/forethought.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  10. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

    Apr 27, 2016
    While Christensen's Anakin seen in the films is undoubtedly a compellingly complex and layered, nuanced character, when it comes to TCW series and it's characterization of Anakin I feel it's important not to throw the baby out with the bath water. As TCW is both a wonderfully crafted cinematic cartoon and a worthy part of the Star Wars universe.
    No, TCW isn't needed to 'help develop Anakin's character' or 'improve the PT', but it does help flesh out the events taking place during the time of the Clone Wars and brings to life the intricately woven galaxy with it's many facets.

    I've had this conversation many times, and one thing I'm still not sure if people are misunderstanding or just choosing not to accept is the necessary differences in characterizations an action/adventure cartoon format demands in contrast to an operatic film saga.
    As mentioned earlier, The Thunderbirds is a key word here. Animated serials require a certain tone, and Lucas chose to emulate the Gerry Anderson style. While the characterizations in the films are amazing, they just won't fit into that medium. Not to say that TCW characters aren't nuanced, I believe they are, it's just more spread out. More arc to arc than from moment to moment.
    TCW Anakin isn't necessarily designed the way he is merely for likability or marketability, it's just the nature of the format. Sort of a necessary sacrifice.

    A few other factoids:
    Anakin is closer to age 20.5 in Season One than 19. I can't find the source at the moment, but TCW starts a number of months after AotC.

    Yoda chose to have Ahsoka be Anakin's Padawan in order to teach him maturity and for him to work on his attachments. After watching the entire series one sees that there are moments when Anakin shines as a good mentor and times when he fails, which is good. No he's not exactly a Qui-Gon or an Obi-Wan but that's the point.

    I wish Tartakovsky's Clone Wars was canon but regardless, since we're mentioning it, remember that Obi-Wan only suggested making Anakin a knight because of the demands of the war. AotC takes place before this. The war and the advent of General Grevious changed everything. (Much to Palpatine's design).
    Obi-Wan, acknowledging Anakin's disobedient streak, knew it would generate a just debate but he put forth the notion that in a time of such need, more Knights are needed and that the challenges of the war and his encounter with Dooku have all served as tests which Anakin has endured with courage. Before this, Yoda had a vision of Anakin and his unorthodox journey as a Jedi, and felt he should trust the will of the Force and indeed forgo the trials and induct Skywalker into knighthood.
    The fact that he didn't face the proper Jedi trials and was rushed into knighthood before maturing is a big point.

    Some personal responses:
    Should Ahsoka have been someone else's Padawan that Anakin befriended? No. Why bother. That would be convoluted imo, and it would undermine the relationship between Ahsoka and her Master. Thus, yes, losing significance. What makes her arc, as well as Anakin's, in the series so interesting is that she is his Padawan, and the effects they have on each other throughout.

    Is this Anakin too nice and non-mercurial? Is it too hard to see him turning to the dark side? Possibly... But remember at his core, his relationship to his attachments is his Achilles Heel, no matter his outlook or demeanor. And the show sticks with this. Why is he so different in the cartoon? What about his pain from AotC? Already having gone over the demands of the format, I would also put forth the idea that the war helped Anakin keep his mind off things, which is kind of a Vader-esque thing.

    I would also go so far as to say that foreshadowing his turn was not a major focus in TCW. Whereas I would say it is in Tartakovsky's.

    Do Obi-Wan's feelings towards Satine contradict what he said about how politicians are not to be trusted? Not really. If anything I'd say it adds depth and drama. Obi-Wan admonishing Anakin on something he himself has experienced. It shows some inconsistency between what some of them say and what they do. Perhaps it's why at the end of the day he was actually a bit permissive about it. But to Obi-Wan's credit he did get his feelings well under control.

    Anyways, to the OP, I would say do continue watching the series for Ahsoka. As others have said, it gets better as it goes on. Though I also appreciate the earlier seasons too. And watch her episodes in Rebels as well.

    And finally, don't mistake this post a justifying TCW Anakin, or at least not as saying it helps the films. Personally, I mind-edit Christensen's Anakin over Lantner's when I watch the show and in my memories of it. As someone who is the rare breed of having grown up in the '80s AND likes the PT, I find the show to be very fulfilling. I grew up intrigued by the Clone Wars and all the other Jedis, and the show delivers far surpassing anything I'd ever dreamed.
    And though while I too find the cartoon Anakin too different from the films, I don't let it ruin my experience or anything. As there are so many other reasons to enjoy it: Ashoka of course, but also Asajj, the Clones, Hondo, Satine, Boba, Mother Talzin, Maul ("I know this will generate debate"), the list goes on...
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  11. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 13, 2014
    TCW Anakin is a stark contradiction to the movie Anakin. For me, TCW Anakin is a better representation of the character. I like the matured yet still struggling with his inner conflicts Anakin over the whiny, throw a tantrum when he doesn't get his way, Anakin of the movies. ROTS Anakin more closely aligns with TCW Anakin, but I still prefer TCW Anakin. I also understand why there are those who prefer movie Anakin over TCW Anakin. To each their own.

    This is part of what made the TCW enjoyable to me, but it's also why I don't consider most of TCW to be canon as there were too many contradictions from the movies.

    Either way, as others have stated, give the show a chance. It gets better as the seasons progress, and you'll most likely find characters you'll enjoy and become invested in.
  12. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 28, 2015
    I was a PT kid growing up, so the announcement of TCW was quite exciting. I even remember everyone complaining that there was "another garbage Prequel thing!" back in 2008. So, I watched the original run of the show before it attracted such a large amount of PT haters. However, in recent years, especially thanks to the media, the amount of "TCW Finally Shows Us Why Anakin Fell To Dark Side" (ok lol) articles have really soured my enjoyment.

    I do enjoy aspects of the show. I like some of the arcs like Umbara and individual episode too. Its enjoyable as a lighthearted serial. However, with people trying to force this idea that TCW IS the definitive Prequel and Matt Lanter is the definitive Anakin, it becomes a more personal issue for me.

    Like what if they made a show set between Episode IV and V, and said "Well Luke is a whiny annoying buttface in ANH and in Empire. He is way cooler in ROTJ, so we decided that will be his personality."

    TCW Anakin feels like every other masculine SW character trope thrown into a blender. And since that trope will likely become the basis for many characters going forward, it makes TCW Anakin feel less notable. I get it tho. When TFA came out, so many were praising the skies that Rey, Finn, and Poe were the greatest SW characters since 1983. That was a good sign overall that the fandom much prefers you spit one liners than to have a complex nuanced and multifaceted character arc.

    I enjoy Ahsoka around Season 3 or 4. I like Boba's character development. Cad Bane is also a cool addition to SW. But, a cynical aspect of my brain is admittedly stubborn to accept TCW. Its the Prequel Hater's Prequel and unfortunately, that sentiment doesn't seem to go away with that part of the fandom becoming more vocal about how TCW should have been Episode I.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
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  13. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Mar 19, 2016
    As someone who grew up with TCW, I saw the film in theaters as a kid and did everything I could to avoid missing even a single episode afterwards, I've always seen the two versions as being rather complimentary.
    Perhaps it is just the optimist in me, but I would describe Anakin in the prequel films as being understandable in the context of the fact that these are the most important days of his life. His loved ones are almost constantly under threat, and he feels responsible for saving them.

    TCW is him on just another day. When the stakes are low, and he can let his guard down.

    And there is some overlap. At the start of episode III he and Obi-Wan do have some lighthearted moments that reflect their relationship in TCW. Then Padme's pregnancy gets thrown in, and his dream of her dying just adds more weight to his shoulders. It's apparent to me he gets little sleep during this time, and ends up leaning on Palpatine a lot more than he should to get by.
    Padme even says he's acting unusually moody, or rather that he has been under a lot of stress.

    There are moments like this in TCW too, when the people he cares about are in real danger he will react instinctively to defend them, to the point where he boarders on the dark side. Instances like Brain Invaders, the Deception Arc, and the Wrong Jedi are perfect reflections of his film persona in my mind. It is the context that defines the character, and his relationship with his friends and loved ones is essential to fully understanding why he acts the way he does.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  14. MissAlyssa

    MissAlyssa Jedi Youngling

    Feb 1, 2020
    These are both interesting takes on how to view TCW. Maybe if I tried approaching the show as it's own thing and reminding myself that it's a different format with a different approach to story telling or try mind-edit Anakin as HC's portrayal, things might click for me. I will try to keep watching. I have Disney+ and it's available to me for a year, so I might as well take advantage. I am open to giving it a genuine shot, despite my misgivings. I do find some things about it enjoyable, like how it delves into the lives of other characters and shows us what was going on during the war.

    That is a major downside of the TV format. Shows just go on and on and on. That's why I like limited runs. The Obi Wan show is supposed to be a limited run series that spans about 4 episodes. I think that could potentially work out well. There should be a clear arc, a set beginning and a set ending. Rather than letting stories just continue on without an goal in mind.

    I disagree with this take on Anakin in the movies. For example, Anakin in AotC "whines" about rather important things like wanting to go see his dying mother who he knows is in pain and needs him or a very human/realistic desire to be acknowledged and praised by his father-figure instead of criticized. Is he flawed? Yes. He is arrogant, brash, impulsive, reckless and petulant. But, he's also someone who is trying very hard to adhere to code that requires him to detach himself from not just his emotions, but also the people he loves. He hasn't seen his mother since he was 9 years old and the next time he does, it's ten years later and she dies in his arms. He is also in a constant state of struggle because his very nature to to be attached and to feel passionate emotions, whether they be love, hate, happiness or anger. Every day he fights his own nature and because he thinks "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than that." I think he is also on path towards maturing by the time RotS comes along. To me that the epitome of "maturing, yet struggling with inner conflicts."

    That's such a bad take. It sounds like it came from Screenrant. It seems like while fans are more open about liking the prequels, the media just can't let go of the unnecessary bashing. And it always sounds like they've never even bothered to watch the movies.

    It's how most protagonists are written and it's disappointing. It's nice when writers decide to break the mold and even toy with a character being wrong or "unlikable" at times for the sake of exploring their growth. That's why Anakin has always been so special to me. There's so much more to him that what's on the surface and so many factors contributing to his emotional state.

    (I will say, where TCW leaves me a little disappointed the RotS novel exceeded my expectations. That is a book that delves so fully into Anakin's mind and is so true to his movie persona. . . as well as all the other characters.)
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  15. Valiowk

    Valiowk Force Ghost star 6

    Apr 23, 2000
    It was interesting to see Subtext Mining say that he mind-edits Christensen's Anakin over Lantner's, because I actually mind-edit Obi-Wan as Ewan McGregor's portrayal throughout. The mind-editing fails when Obi-Wan is too goofy, though, and I haven't succeeded in mind-editing Anakin as Christensen's portrayal - the difference seems too wide for me. I'm not sure that being a different format with a different approach to storytelling excuses that many problems with TCW, though - the 2003 Clone Wars was also a different format with a different approach to storytelling, but maintains continuity far more naturally, the characters feel much closer to their film versions, and there aren't strange decisions like bringing Maul back to life. (I think part of the problem I have with TCW is the insistence that all of it is canon, in the sense of being in the Star Wars continuity. We've seen lots of great non-canon stories where people have more freedom to have fun. It's unfortunate that there seems to be some sort of discrimination against being non-canon. Maybe the decanonisation of Legends will lead fans to rethink this.)

    Absolutely agree!

    I am so proud of how much Anakin has matured by the beginning of RotS. I think it was a joint effort on both his and Obi-Wan's parts, and I think both did a great job in the three years between AotC and RotS. Honestly, it would probably have sufficed for an ordinary Jedi Knight, and if Anakin hadn't been constantly subject to Palpatine's manipulations.

    Have to agree with this, unfortunately. Is it so hard to let people decide for themselves whether something is good or not instead of drawing a conclusion for them in advance?
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  16. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

    Mar 26, 2013
  17. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Nov 10, 2011
    Never really saw a huge difference. TCW Anakin is basically just Anakin as he is in the first act of ROTS, with maybe a little more of a Han Solo-esque swagger. The character has been adapted a little bit from the movies in terms of presentation, but it isn't a fundamentally different one.
  18. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 1, 2012
    There was a Clone Wars "microseries," created by an animator named Genndy Tartakovsky, and broadccast on the Cartoon Network, in 2003 (before the release of ROTS). All mini episodes (no more than 3 minutes each) together constitute approximately two hours. This series, which according to my understanding only had a relatively small amount of input from Lucas, then inspired Lucas to go ahead with the full TCW series. It's long been decanonized but it's definitely worth a watch, parts of it are great IMO. The reason why I bring it up is that (despite its short length) Anakin's characterization is a bit closer to how he's portrayed in the films, IMO.

    Also interesting is that it basically takes place starting right after the events of AOTC, and ends leading right up to the beginning of ROTS. So it's easy to see this as connecting or bridging the two movies. You'll also notice how the animation style influenced the subsequent, full series made by Filoni.

    Have a look and see what you think. Since the whole thing is on YouTube I assume nobody would object to me linking to it here:

    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    Darth PJ, Iron_lord, Valiowk and 2 others like this.
  19. CaptainSuchandSuch

    CaptainSuchandSuch Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 8, 2015
    Whenever I try to catch an episode of Clone Wars, I'm always distracted by the disconnect with Anakin and Padme's voices. They don't sound anything like Christensen and Portman. It's hard for me to think of this as really belonging in the same narrative world as the prequels for that reason.

    The series certainly seems like a nice prequel tribute, though, and I'm interested in looking into it further for some of the storylines I've heard about.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  20. MissAlyssa

    MissAlyssa Jedi Youngling

    Feb 1, 2020
    This sounds so appealing to me. There definitely is a desire to start critiquing and question certain things because Lucas of the canon label. As opposed to just relaxing when viewing. It's kind of like how Lucas always considered the EU to be an "alternate world" rather than part of the movie canon, but he was still pretty respectful of it and it included a lot of things he wanted to put in the movies but couldn't. It is more enjoyable that way. I wouldn't watch and be like "Anakin should not have a padawan at 19, there isn't even a hint of her" or "Obi Wan is not that goofy."

    Me too! I love the scene when he just takes a moment to apologize to Obi Wan for his arrogance and not appreciating his teachings. He's acknowledging that he wasn't the easiest pupil and that Obi Wan definitely had to put in some extra work dealing with him.

    Thank you so much! I saw this being mentioned by several posters in in here, in a positive manner, and was just about to ask if I anyone had a link. I'm definitely going to start watching this over the weekend.
  21. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Apr 18, 2013
    That is in there as the series progresses but obviously as that isn't the focus of the series since that is in the movies. This is all from Lucas so it's all part of the progression but obviously there has to be separation between the different strands.

    Lucas thought about all sorts of things that would happen in the years between AOTC and ROTS but obviously there was no point or place for them in ROTS hence his padawan is nowhere to be seen or even referenced that he had one.

    That's why Anakin and Grievous never met physically before or why it's supposed to be years since he fought Dooku. In the former case they didn't meet in TCW but they felt their was room for other meetings with Dooku of which there were several duels.

    True but as that is a total of a few scenes also tinged with the necessary darkness to come I think people tend to dwell more on the AOTC Anakin since that had more screen time.

    I don't see the contradiction. It's the same character from the same author. The difference is that AOTC takes place over a few days then ROTS years later also takes place over a few days as opposed to different stories in-between over that period of time.

    I wish that they had got HC to do the voice but Lucas apparently wanted a separation between the two mediums. If he had really wanted more movie actors to do the voices on TCW then he would have. The movies don't need TCW but then are good supplemental material that also exist on their own with relation to the events of the saga.

    I noted that as the series went on it got closer and closer to the tone of ROTS. If the series had actually finished (and we are getting to see some of that including the last arc) then it'd probably all work out well.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  22. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    May 9, 2001
    I really enjoyed the Tartakovsky cartoon series, and was disappointed that a new series overwrote it. The result is I haven't let myself watch a lot of the newer cartoon. Some issues I know I will have (besides "skyguy") include the apparently near-total revision of General Grievous' menacing character (which partly relates to a confusing line by Windu in Episode III, but may reflect Windu's attempt to shape perceptions rather than simple fact) and the resurrection of Darth Maul. I will say that I caught some of the Maul resurrection arc, and granted the decision to bring him back, they handled it about as well as they could have. What I've heard about Mortis doesn't sound appealing but maybe I will give it a chance.

    I really like the concept of filling in a whole lot of stories about this three year conflict. But the sort of thing people are saying here about how it doesn't quite fit in terms of Anakin's characterization are just another reason I'm in no hurry to check it out.
  23. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 28, 2015
    Mat Lucas doesnt get enough credit for his Anakin. He doesn't quite get the ROTS Anakin persona right (at least not in the videogame) but in the second half of 2003 CW, Lucas's Anakin feels closer to ROTS Anakin.
    Blackhole E Snoke likes this.

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Apr 15, 2005
    yeah anakin is a big reason i don't really accept TCW as canon, because you cannot tell me the guy in ROTS has already had a padawan.

    among other things in the series
    cratylus likes this.
  25. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Sep 16, 2005
    I also tend to feel that the series - much as I enjoyed it - did alter some characters characterizations (though I think it humanized Anakin a bit, which I appreciate because I did not like AoTC Anakin) - quite frankly, the star of the show was a snarky, smart ass, tube-top and mini skirt young female in the first few seasons (yes, she grew on me, but I still don't think a Jedi Padawan would quite be like that), Obi-Wan was either barking orders or getting his come-uppence (was wrong, getting beaten), and Ahsoka had a lion's share of the answers that her elders failed at (note: I am talking frequency, as youngsters can teach us or see more clearly, but not to that degree).

    Outside of the power levels and early characterizations of Ahsoka, I did like the character and series.
    Qui-Riv-Brid likes this.