ST Andy Serkis (Snoke) In Episode IX

Snoke seems be mentioned and explained in ix.

 

And connected to Palpatine as well.

 

Yeah i figured they be connected. Kylo tries to find signs of his master's origin and his power.

 

How is that. It appears to be just generic stuff trying to hide it was Palpatine all along. I really hope its answered in the movie and not held for some books if he was Snoke all along.

 

I think we'll get some variation of ROTJ's "It was I who allowed the . . . " but he'll explain who Snoke is.

 

Pretty much. ^ All we need, too.

 

What's the likelihood we think of it being retconned that Snoke was a Force-using acolyte or something of Palpatine's meant to fill the gap but got full of himself?

 

Is it confirmed that Andy is in it?

 

How would that be a retcon?

 

I think it's more likley he was a ally of palpatine and not an underling.

 

I'd venture ignorant tool more than ally, but yeah, pretty confident at this point they're not going the "just some guy Palpatine possessed" route, they'll be different people. Hopefully, anyway.

Guy with some genuine darkside ability and a academic mind, who all the same just wasn't made of the same long-game scheming wily stuff that Palpatine was, and had no idea he was just being manipulated with as a useful short-game pawn.

Basically an academic who's never held a real job, as opposed to Palpatine who's just as bright (and moreso) but has actually lived and seen how the world actually works.

 

Rival maybe.

 

I think Snoke and Palpatine will be revealed to be the same person, either through possession or he was a mutated clone or something. I don't think it'll be some explanation that dismisses him as a rival or acolyte with a presumably complex backstory that we don't have time for onscreen. Making him anyone besides Palpatine will inevitably raise more questions than it answers in a film that is ostensibly tying things up.

 

The only thing about Snoke really being Palpatine that wouldn't make sense to me is the fact that Snoke wanted Kylo to kill Rey. And we know Palpatine has plans for Rey so he wouldn't have killed her off in TLJ.

 

I don't see it as too big an issue because it could be that he just didn't realize her power or maybe after he gets "killed" on the Supremacy he decides that next time he wants a better body to possess.

Since you're relatively new to the forums I'm going to share my Ultimate Clone Theory of Incomprehensible Madness Which Everyone Hates. I don't think this will happen but I love inflicting it on people.

It goes like this: Palpatine had clone tanks scattered around the Galaxy like in Dark Empire, but not all of them were straight clones of himself, they were a variety of gender/species types. After ROTJ he jumped into a new clone. At some point Luke learned about this, tracked him down and killed him, but knew that he'd escaped again. He's not sure how to permanently kill Palpatine. Old Palps' spirit flies off to the Jakuu observatory where it jumps into one of the infant clones, Rey, but her spirit/soul is strong enough to resist him even as a baby. She pops out of the bacta tank as a "normal" non-growth-accelerated baby and is taken in by scavengers. Palpatine has to go to a malfunctioning clone and comes out as the deformed Snoke. Years later, Luke starts the new Jedi academy, where Kylo begins getting tormented by Palpatine through sorcery and thinks he's going insane. Eventually Luke shares the secret with him, that Palpatine is still alive and he's not sure what to do about. Kylo is enraged and says he will seek out Palpatine to become his apprentice, learn his secrets and kill him for good (the Dark Empire plot redux). Luke forbids it and they distrust each other more by the day until the massacre. I like this theory because it gives Kylo a plausible redemption angle. As to why Snoke/Palpatine would be willing to have Rey killed, he just doesn't think he needs her then, but in TROS she's one of the last clones left and he still thinks he can possess her somehow.

 

The fact that this casting is officially on par with Max von Sydow being cast as Lor San Tekka amuses me.

 

Thanks for sharing your theory with me! I've never been a big fan of Rey being a clone of anyone, whether it was Palpatine or Luke's severed hand, however I really like how you seeded in Kylo's redemption storyline with him purposefully joining the dark side as a sort of double agent to eradicate it from the inside. I remember there were a lot of theories about Kylo secretly being good or even having sacrificed himself for the greater good, and that even Han was in on it by allowing himself to be killed to keep up Kylo's cover. I'd love to see your version of Kylo joining the dark side be incorporated into canon. As for the cloning part, I always thought that the reference to it in TFA might hint at Palpatine's return like in Dark Empire. That doesn't seem to be what they're doing now with the leaks, otherwise it was a big theory especially when Dark Rey came out. A lot of people equated that with her being an evil Rey clone or twin who had been in the UR this whole time as Palpatine's agent or apprentice.

 

Perhaps there's a hologram recording or sith holocron Kylo finds that shows Sidious with a much younger Snoke, pre-ROTJ? Could that be possible?

 

Really? So again, as long as the answer to these questions are even presented at all, it's all good? Usually, when the answer to a big mystery is given, the sign of a good answer would be for the audience to say, "Oh, of course! It was right there the whole time! I just wasn't thinking in that particular dimension!"

I'd say that would be the response when you hear that Vader is Luke's father. Or when Vader turns on the Emperor and saves Luke. I should have seen that coming, but the filmmaker was always one step ahead of me, and manipulated me in such a way that allowed for the surprise. Or when you realize the Stormtroopers were good before they were bad. It's like, wow never thought of that, but it actually makes a lot of sense given what we know.

To shoe horn some kind of convoluted explanation that technically explains everything, but completely comes out of left field, that is not good enough. Right?

 

You're correct it's not great, not ideal. But realistically, it's most likely what we are going to get.

 

You’re right, it does need to be a quality explanation and honestly, I doubt they can pull it off. I wish I could say their chances are 50/50 but I have trouble imagining exactly how it could work. The possibility is there though, especially with Palpatine. They could spend the whole movie building up to revealing his master plan, with lots of exposition and tie-ins along the way. Palpatine is a big enough character that I could believe him pulling off some pretty elaborate stuff. But yeah, it’s all going to come down to how creative and careful Terrio and Abrams can be. The big comparison people will probably make is Batman vs Superman, Terrio’s highest profile writing project. I think that movie is actually really good because it elegantly combines characters and themes in surprising ways, but the plot mechanic that he used to tie it off at the end – the notorious “Martha” moment – was a complete dud. I doubt he’ll be able to get away with that in TROS mostly because Abrams only makes diligently streamlined movies that are smaller and less ambitious than Snyder’s.

 

Snoke's not important. So, yes, it's pretty easy to deliver something good, and quickly, if that's your concern.

All we need is what the dynamic was with Palpatine, and how he relates to this Unknown Regions/Exogol stuff given that's supposedly the reasoning for Ben heading on out there at the start of the film.

You can deliver that in like 15-20 seconds of dialogue. If it adds up and makes sense, that's the bar of what we should be expecting. The guy was sleight-of-hand from the start, both in a narrative sense out-of-universe and also by Palpatine in-universe.

 

From the leaks it sounds like snoke found Palpatine on this planet with the cube. And everything about him from canon sceams how different from Palpatine he is and how mysterious he is. He has relations to the Skywalker family and seems he might have been an ally early on. Er know from canon he has one apprentice before Kylo and wanted to train more. So rule of two means nothing to him.

 

Interesting. Is that from the latest comic, with the Ben/Dagobah stuff? Gonna have to read that one of these days.

I like the idea he's open to more apprentices, that could go a couple of ways regarding the Knights, if they're somehow not more a loyal-directly-to-Ben type of thing.

So it's been established now that Snoke actually did know the OT three on a personal level? That's sort of the impression I got from the Han/Leia conversation in TFA, but it's obviously pretty vague. Would be intriguing if that's indeed the case.

Not so sure I'm into the notion that Palpatine/Snoke actually met though, seems to me it works better if Palpatine's been pulling his strings all along, but Snoke's totally clueless/oblivious to that. Probably better if Snoke's unaware Palpatine's still around.

 

It is hinted, that he met Luke and could use him to rule the galaxy. We know he has had one apprentice before Kylo and wanted to train more.