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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Kuestmaster, May 2, 2014.

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  1. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Who got angry because he had to get the pizza for the Jedi Council, left the Order, escaped from Order 66, and gave into the dark side.
     
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  2. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I didn't say he wasn't acting. But as someone who is well known for their motion capture work and whole body performances, they cast him as a guy who just sits there. He was essentially just a voice actor in TFA. I do not feel they utilized his talent. Things could change in episodes 8 and 9, but Snoke was a mediocre character performance wise thus far. Not a role that really matches Serkis' previous performances as Caesar, Kong, or Gollum.

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  3. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    mo-cap is much more than that. you don't have to physically cavort around to be of use.
     
  4. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    You also don't have to be a good actor to do anything that Snoke did. Not physically (he sat there) and not behaviorally (the part didn't require a range of emotions). And he wasn't very expressive facially. There's a far wider range of all three characteristics in any of the three aforementioned characters. Snoke, IMO, was a forgettable performance. He's an interesting character from a lore standpoint, but as far as animated characters go, he was an extremely dull performance. And I don't fault Serkis for that, since he is skilled in physically conveying emotion using motion capture, as well as creating unique and interesting characters in interpreting how they move.

    Hence I feel the role was a waste of his talent. The character was very restrained.

    Not everyone could do a convincing Kong or Gollum. He's a great physical actor. Something that Snoke did not embody, imo. Which is why I hope they unleash the character more in future installments and give Andy more to work with in his performance.

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  5. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 26, 2009
    Didn't JJ actually shoot down the Snoke is Plagueis theory back at San Diego Comic Con in July?
     
  6. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    ok now you're just trolling.
     
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  7. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    No, I'm not. I'm just saying it wasn't a role that demanded any kind of real acting skill. He sits there and talks, fairly emotionless.

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  8. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    in film 1 yes but we must have different definitions of emotionless.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I know it's only the first movie, and I acknowledge that Palpatine didn't do anything in ESB, except appear briefly and talk. So I'm not ruling out the possibility that the character will get more exciting. And the character has an interesting spine that could lend itself to Andy coming up with interesting movements for the character.

    So I'm conflicted in the sense that he could turn out to be a great character, but as I've said in other forums, I'm hoping that he gets usurped by Kylo and doesn't follow the same mold as Palpatine and Vader.

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  10. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    True, there wasn't motion to capture.
     
  11. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    so faces and hands don't move now?
     
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  12. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Shoulda said there wasn't much motion to capture.
     
  13. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014
    I wouldn't say Serkis's was wasted - if anything I'd say he gave a poor "motion" performance; the "tells" of mocap are the slightly exaggerated gesture that seem to be for the benefit of the "trackers" rather than a natural performance.
    While Serkis's was fantastic as Gollum, and obviously put the work in when playing apes in Kong and POTA, I think he may not quite be the mocap genius he's presented as; he knows the technical stuff, and he's a great actor, but the next breakthrough in mocap will be around a naturalistic portrayal of a near human. It's a bit stagey in TFA.

    Also, Serkis's greatest assets are his face and his voice. I can't be alone in thinking that Serkis looked more like a supreme villain in the behind the scenes shots of him than in the finished film; put him in a costume and TFA is a better film immediately, for me.
     
  14. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    i think he and snoke are great.
     
  15. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    I will wait until we see more of him in EP VIII.

    What we are doing is similar to comparing the Emperor in EP V to the Emperor in EP VI.
     
  16. Dagobah Dragonsnake

    Dagobah Dragonsnake Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 7, 2016
    They most likely left him sitting down, and as a huge hologram, as the introduction, very similar to ESB. Our introduction to Palpatine ... well, at the time actually just the Emperor ... was a vague transmitted head (of which the original was a bit bizarre). One thing for certain for those who feel Serkis is wasted, it would be a bit unconventional to have Snoke climbing rocks or scurrying around looking for his version of My Precious, or jumping about like a chimpanzee or other simian. I do believe that we will see Snoke more animated, since he has ordered for Kylo to be brought to him to finish his training, and there have been rumors that his actual stature is about seven feet. It is the first episode of a trilogy and there is plenty of time for Snoke to do more than sit in a chair. Then again, in the OT the Emperor pretty much walked out of his shuttle, sat in a chair, walked down the stairs, shot off some lightning, then got dead. Snoke may even be more active than the Emperor in the OT.
     
  17. Ganger

    Ganger Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 9, 1999
    hahaha suit yourself, dude. Plagueis ain't happening, thankfully.
     
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  18. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 26, 2014
    If Snoke doesn't do a rendition of putting on the ritz in episode 8 it will be a wasted opportunity.
     
  19. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 10, 2005
    Snoke looks like on of the Emperors servants in RotJ--even dressed similarly. However, I think he could also be Mace Windu--very similar postuer and dialect.
     
  20. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 26, 2014
    I think Snoke is a former member of Palpatine's inner circle. Snoke seems to be or inspired by the legends character Cronal.
     
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  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Would it have been better if we only heard Snoke's voice and Snoke's appearance was left up to VIII or IX? Snoke's hologram was creaed at the last minute and I, like many, wasn't a fan of thr result.
     
  22. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I may not have liked the CGI, but Serkis gave an excellent mo-cap and vocal performance.
     
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  23. Biel Ductavis

    Biel Ductavis Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    What i like about the appearance is that it raises questions about the character, who he is and what was he going through to become what he is.
     
  24. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I'm anticipating he'll be killed off. His purpose has been fulfilled.

    Palpatine in the OT was a minor character until ROTJ.

    He doesn't make an appearance in ANH and is only mentioned. Vader and Tarkin are the big bad guys. Then in ESB, Vader is more at the forefront. Palpatine shows up briefly for a single scene and that exists to remind the audience that there is someone higher up than Vader and that he wants to turn Luke.

    His biggest appearance is in ROTJ where the only significance he has as a character is to show why Vader was reluctant to leave the Empire, out of fear of Palpatine. By then Vader was conflicted, and Palpatine was the counter to Luke, competing for Vader's soul. And then Palpatine also just needed to die to give closure to the conflict.

    Snoke has already done all this in act one. He made an appearance, we've established he's the head honcho, he wants Luke dead, he's the reason Ben won't be redeemed and is the counterweight to Han, only this time the villain wins the battle for the soul. And his last line in the movie is that he's going to finish Kylo Ren's training, implying a
    significant reduction in usefulness.

    As Lucas, and I believe Kathleen Kennedy said, these films are a family drama in a sci-fi setting. Palpatine is not the focus of the OT, it's about the conflict between Luke and Vader.

    Palpatine had a role to play in keeping Vader from being redeemed, but that didn't come til Act 3, while Snoke has already done it.

    It's about the family conflict, not about Snoke. Snoke had already won the battle for Ben's soul, culminating in Ben killing Han, a d is now going to complete his training.

    Rather that making the main antagonist (Vader) all of a sudden take a backseat to a supporting character (Palpatine), I'd rather they just kill off Snoke, have Kylo usurp him, and make the family member the big bad guy.

    I'm hoping he's dead by the end of Episode VIII




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  25. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    I doubt it'll happen.

    I don't think Vader was reluctant to leave the Empire. In fact, he wanted to share it with Luke. Even then, in the OT, when there was no Rule of 2, both the Emperor and Vader want to turn him then. Let's say that happens. Do Vader and Luke immediately turn on the Emperor while a battle is going on? Or do the three finish off the Rebellion first, then train Luke, and Vader and Luke gang up on the Emperor.

    With the PT putting things in a new perspective, we get a Vader already wanting to run HIS empire, but he effed up and needs the Emperor for several reasons.

    I don't think Ren will be strong enough to take on Snoke in VIII. He has to take on Luke and Rey first. I don't think he'll be entirely successful. As with the Empire in TESB, the FO will gain ground, setting up IX. Hopefully the ST won't parallel the OT too much, but I don't expect a whole lot of deviation.
     
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