ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Perhaps because J.J. Abrams presumed to have enough time to make and develope Snoke more spectacular in Ep. IX, a pursuit thwarted by Raining in parade Johnson.

 

But I like rain. Don’t like parades.

 

Discussion stopper? There is so much and even more feisty humor around on this board and nobody cares. And since when JJ Abrams is not going to make Ep. IX? I remember that he was supposed to do this, but this information is quite older, I know.

 

Because Andy Serkis

 

Concept artist Ivan Manzella recently updated his website with some of his work from TLJ, which includes a couple good looks at the final Snoke bust that was based on the TFA CG model, as well as one (or a few) concept pieces of his attendants.

Seeing this art, and the less-human version of Snoke, made me wonder once more what sort of mindset the storytellers had in relation to the First Order. Are they a remnant of the Empire, reborn? Or are they mainly a separate group that merely imitates the Empire, with relatively few original Imperials included in the mix? Likely it's a little of both, I'm sure. But even if it is a "truer" remnant of the Empire, what does that even mean in the new canon? Is it weird that Snoke is an alien yet in charge of this remnant, or is that just based on an old canon view of things? I know the Thrawn novel mentions anti-alien bias, but perhaps we are still interpreting that from the old canon view of the Empire, and it's not truly representative of the Empire?

That makes me think that maybe Abrams and Lucasfilm were trying to elicit a universe more like the one from the original Star Wars, before it become ANH, before even TESB. I don't know how viewers thought of the SW universe at that time, or of the Empire, but watching that movie again and trying to see it as its own thing, independent of everything that came later, paints a very different picture for me. Sure, it seems like a very human Empire, but so does the Rebellion. This is could just be an FX limitation of the time, and indeed certain comments from Rinzler's Making of ROTJ book make it seem like GL thought of included high-ranking alien Imperials in the OT (Jerjerrod was nonhuman at some point, if I recall correctly).

Similarly, early original canon works like Splinter of the Minds Eye maintain that open mystery sense with regards to the full extent of the Empire. A new, important Imperial could appear out of nowhere, a governor, and that would be enough to establish his connection to Vader. Are the storytellers reestablishing that bigger, more exotic Empire from pre-canon Star Wars?

In that case, Snoke's backstory could be fairly straightforward, if we don't put the constraints of old canon on it. He could simply be an old, high-ranking Imperial who used his knowledge of the Force, which was strengthened by whatever knowledge was found in the Unknown Regions, to take over the First Order as he too fled from the New Republic.

The very demonic, almost supernatural appearance of Snoke in TFA, which is revealed as artifice, also reminds me of that concept GL had for Vader to serve an actual, gigantic embodiment of the Force, in the early stages of planning Splinter with the book's author. So who knows what kind of beings GL felt he could have had be a part of the Empire.

Am I misreading the "old Empire" aesthetic from the '70s? The aborted Atha Prime arc makes me think I'm not, but I would love some insight from more knowledgeable fans.

 

Because it was Andy Serkis in the role.

 

I don't know how viewers thought of the SW universe at that time, or of the Empire, but watching that movie again and trying to see it as its own thing, independent of everything that came later, paints a very different picture for me.

I really hope that - just like you - more people would look upon the new films with such an unbiased view, leaving aside all that prejudices and feuds, which are howling around the social media nowadays.

 

I will stand by that Snoke was blameless and that is what made him interesting for me.

 

I wonder if Snoke will even get a mention in IX. I'd put it at 75%.

 

Snoke didn't even kill anyone.
He was a frail old man and was murdered.

 

He just ordered the destruction of Hosnian prime

 

Which was Hux's idea, so it doesn't do much for Snoke's rep ultimately.

 

Snoke was the boss. The first order is Snoke, who is Hux?

 

Apparently a guy who knows more about it than Snoke does (seriously the leader of the FO didn't know about the tracker that the FO invented that's on the FO capital ship, until Hux told him about it, what)?

 

Maybe Snoke left the details to Hux while focusing on the larger picture? Sort of like someone saying, "Do this. I don't care how you do it, but get it done."

 

Why exactly would the Supreme Leader need to know about such a device?

It has been in development since the times of the Empire (see Rogue One). It was in no way important for their ultimate goal, just a neat little feature that could give them an advantage in the right situation. It's not like their entire plan was based on hunting the resistence through hyperspace, that only came about when the destruction of the resistence base through Starkiller Base and the following attack on the base with ships failed. There is little reason for Snoke to care about minute details like that. Their entire approach was the immediate destruction of everyone who could offer resistence, primarily based on the firepower of Starkiller Base. For that, Snoke doesn't need to know anything about a particular tracking-device that may not even be used.

 

In retrospect, I'm not sure what the point was in all of the speculation that Snoke was Plagueis. What would his purpose have been in this trilogy if he had indeed "cheated death" only to be killed off again?

 

No the reason why Snoke didn't know about the device, is so that we could get a "funny" scene of him dragging Hux around while the latter screams. Because I guess we don't need credible villains anymore or something.

Also dictators DO tend to want to know about important details like that (being control freaks and all that). And if you have to go "well MAYBE it's this or that" then that's a flaw in the writing.

 

Exactly. The Supreme Leader was wise, but Plagueis was wiser and stayed dead.

 

I really doubt Snoke was the Supreme Military Leader in anything more than name only, unlike the genius in your avatar. Just listened to HTTE audiobook. What a brilliant novel, character, and performance. Yet, he couldn’t foresee his losses and downfall. Snoke isn’t a military man. He isn’t even aware of the SSK being ready in TFA and I don’t remember any funny scenes with him there. I doubt he is even a politician. He isn’t Palpatine, who was unaware of the first Death Star’s flaw. Yet, according to your logic, he should be a control freak who’d want to know such important details. ALL dictators are control freaks? No delegates? I thought for Luceno Palpatine is a dictator who created a bureaucracy to pretty much run itself so he can spend time in his mystical quest. I get the impression Snoke is also a mystic, and his responsibilities are considerably less than Palpatine’s.

 

The official site describes him as a "seeker of arcane lore". I've come to think of him as a sort of space Aleister Crowley-type figure.