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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Any Former SE Haters Who Now Like the Special Edition?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by rpeugh, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Right, but he doesn't know for certain that this is his son and not Obi-Wan's mind game. All he knows is that this boy comes out of nowhere and that he is using his last name. It could be a potential that was recruited to help Obi-Wan. Palpatine is clear of thought here, as he makes the most logical conclusion to make.
     
  2. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    The Vader arriving on the Star Destroyer scenes at the end of ESB bugged me on a recent rewatch. They are so unnecessary. I was 11 when ESB came out and I fully understood that "bring my shuttle" meant the shuttle was going to the Star Destroyer. It brings an exciting climactic scene to a screeching halt and treats the audience like imbeciles.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  3. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    So in the first part of the film, the battle at Hoth, Vader is on the SSD and then soon after, he is in the Rebel base, no scene of him landing. Was that also jarring?
    And we see Vader order Veers to land his troops but we don't see them landing, was that also jarring?

    SW at times shows ships landing but that sets up that ships can land, shuttles do exist so therefore, we don't need to see them every time. A little bit of dialogue works fine.

    In the RotJ script, there is this;
    So Anakin/Vader did not know she was pregnant when he left her and the children were split up at birth and Luke was taken to Tatooine and Leia to Alderaan but her being adopted was not known. So she was presented as Bail's real child. On wonders how? Was Bail's wife pregnant and lost the baby right around that time?

    Some of that was cut but what we have is that in ANH, Vader knows that Obi-Wan came from Tatooine, there was a rebel pilot that was strong with the Force and he likely knows that pilot blew up the DS.
    Between ANH and ESB, he found out Luke's name and that Obi-Wan had been training him.
    So a Skywalker, strong with the Force, trained by Obi-Wan and has the approximate age that would fit with a child of his. Vader would not need to be super smart to put two and two together.
    But knowing he had one child does not mean he would know that he had two. If, as the RotJ script said, he did not know Luke's mother had been pregnant, then he would certainly not know she carried twins.

    The PT changes a little, now Leia's adoption would be known since Bail said that he and his wife had thought to adopt a baby girl.
    But other than that, no need to change any dialogue.
    Anakin/Vader knows Padme is pregnant yes, but he is told she died and if he saw any photos from her funeral, then he would see her body still looking pregnant. So he would think that Padme and her unborn child are both dead. So no reason to think any child of his is out there.

    Then ANH happens and later he learns Luke's name and all that.
    Since he knows that Obi-Wan took Padme with him from Mustafar then unless Vader is really stupid, he would not have any problem figuring out what happened. Padme lived long enough to give birth and Obi-Wan took the child to Tatooine and made Padme's body look pregnant to make people think that Padme's child died with her mother. And it worked, both Vader and Palpatine were fooled.
    But now Vader knows the truth. But again, since neither he, nor Padme knew she was carrying twins, I guess ultrasound is not a thing in SW. Then finding out about one child is not reason to think another is out there.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    They wouldn't need to do much to "make Padme's body look pregnant" - bumps take some time to go down after pregnancy's over.
     
  5. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Still does not explain how Vader and Palpatine did not feel a "vergence" in the force that would be created by Anakin's offspring? Did ObiWan and Yoda mask that somehow as well?
     
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    In 1981-83, Lucas never came up with a full backstory for Bail, much less his wife. Before making Leia a Skywalker, her mother was just a queen named Breha in the first drat. Beyond that, nothing. By the time she became a Skywalker, her adoption is known since Luke knows it. It is unclear what the Sith know. By the time Lucas came up with a full backstory, he never elaborated on who knew what.

    Not quite. Vader could easily think this boy is a mind game. He could have been a child Obi-Wan found and named Luke Skywalker, in order to try and get into his head and serve as a rally for the Alliance.

    Why would they sense anything? No one sensed Anakin. Qui-Gon makes several observations about Anakin that when combined with what Shmi said, the Midichlorian count, Serenity's training and Maul's appearance, makes him conclude that there is a vergence around him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
  7. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    No, in the RotJ script we have this;
    So her adoption was NOT known. Luke was told about it so he knew then.
    Yes this was not in the film but as far as what Lucas intended, Leia being adopted seemed to be a secret.

    Why would Vader think this?
    So Vader would think that about 17 years ago, Obi-Wan came up with a plan to have a child, raise and train that child and when the time comes, have that child pretend to be a Skywalker in order to mess with Vader and be an inspiration for the rebels? Seems quite a conspiracy theory.

    Also, if the troopers sent down to Tatooine made a report and assuming Vader read that report. Then he would know that the Lars farm were destroyed and Owen and Beru killed. They had a connection to Anakin. Also, assuming Tatooine kept records of who lived where, Vader would know that there was a Luke Skywalker on that farm but he that was not there when the farm was destroyed. This Luke Skywalker had lived there for quite a while.
    So IF we go with this Obi-Wan had a child theory. Why was that child living with the Lars? Why didn't Obi-Wan raise the child himself?

    Far simpler would be to think that the child was his and Owen and Beru took care of it since they were related to that child.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
  8. screamsinthevoid

    screamsinthevoid Jedi Knight

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    Nov 26, 2017
    @ Samuel Vimes ....what you have been quoting as the ROTJ script is not the script , those passages are from the novelization of ROTJ by James Kahn...https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_VI:_Return_of_the_Jedi_(novel)
    also , in regards to an earlier post about Vader returning to his shuttle and docking on the Star Destroyer in the 97 special edition of ESB onwards , i always thought it was a stupid change and a poorly executed scene using obvious outtake footage from the beginning of Return Of The Jedi . Moff Jerjerrod is standing right there waiting for him which logically makes no sense . Why would a Moff be on standby on Vader's personal flagship ? Where is Admiral Piett ? (Oh , because it's not his flagship ,it's the Death Star 2 ) The simple line of Bring my shuttle , spoken with more menace in the original cut was perfectly fine to explain how he got there without holding the audiences hand and screwing up the pacing of the Falcon escaping .
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The novelization is taken from the shooting script that was used in 1982 and the revisions made during principal photography and with the reshoots. The script that is available online is taken from the official release, which incorporated text from the novelization.

    That's largely what I mean. But it is also unknown if Leia being adopted was known by people of influence on worlds like Courscant. If Lucas had intended to stick with that despite his lack of intention to do more films.


    But just as valid a theory.

    But then that also counts if he already thinks that is his son. Why let them raise Luke as their own? Why leave him with the Lars? Vader is confused either way. It also depends on how detailed a report the Stormtroopers made.
     
  10. screamsinthevoid

    screamsinthevoid Jedi Knight

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    Nov 26, 2017
     
  11. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    That gives that answer pretty clearly. Leia being adopted was a VERY close guarded secret.

    Really?
    Anakin/Vader had a wife/girlfriend and he likely slept with her. He left her not knowing she was pregnant. Then he hears about a Skywalker, raised by the Lars, who were related to him and this Skywalker is really strong with the Force and has the approximate age that would fit a child of his.
    So thinking that she had a child, that was his, that Obi-Wan hid, that is somehow less reasonable than Obi-Wan just knocking up some random woman, has a child, leaves that child with the Lars for no reason, calls the child "Skywalker" just to mess with Vader and be a beacon for the rebels? All this 17+ years in advance?

    If the child is Vader's then the Lars is family so they are related to the child.
    If the child is Obi-Wans then there is no relation to the Lars and no reason for Obi-Wan to give them the child. Why would they accept it? Did Obi-Wan lie to them and told them this was Anakin's child?
    If we go with weird theories, maybe Luke is a clone of Anakin? Obi-Wan would have been close to Anakin to get a sample and could then have cloned Anakin and called him "Luke".

    No, unless Vader has a really strong reason to think that Luke can not possible be his child, say he never slept with any woman, then accepting Luke as his child makes more sense that some consipracy theory that Obi-Wan is doing this just to mess with him.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
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  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    I didn't say it was Obi-Wan's child, but one that he found and chose to use the Skywalker name due to his reputation during the Clone Wars. It could also be Owen and Beru's son, named after Shmi.

    If he thinks Luke is an orphan child, he could think that due to knowing about the Lars, that they were the only ones trustworthy to take care of the child, while he stayed hidden. If he thinks it's their child, then he intended to train him one day. The point is there are multiple possibilities.
     
  13. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Any random child or a child of Owen and Beru has the problem, would such a child be as strong in the Force as Luke is?
    Even ignoring the PT and the midis, Luke and Leia's strength in the Force seemed above average and expected.
    So just any child would not work due not being strong in the Force and would thus not fool Vader. And unless Owen or Beru were strong in the Force, no indication of that in ANH, then a child of theirs is unlikely to be strong in the Force either.

    The Force can run in families, RotJ established that. Even ESB suggested that Luke, being the "Son of Skywalker" would be strong in the Force.
    Also, both Vader and Palpatine sensed a great disturbance in the Force in ESB and could pinpoint to Luke. That suggests they could sense something about the person. So if this was not a Skywalker, then odds are that they could sense that.

    So in order for Obi-Wan to pull this off and fool Vader and Palpatine, he needs not just any child but one that is very strong in the Force. And those are not likely to all that common.
    Plus, if Obi-Wan intends to train this child, who isn't related to Owen and Beru, why involve them at all?
    Obi-Wan can raise and then train the child. No need for the Lars.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    At least strong enough to possibly be a threat, just like the Younglings in the Temple and the potentials since then.

    With minimal training, Luke was able to fight an experienced Sith Lord twice and keep up with him, winning the second time. That's more than above average. The fact that Sidious said that he could destroy them indicated how serious a threat he was.

    I wasn't saying it was to fool Vader into thinking this was his child. I said to mess with his mind and to give the galaxy a hero to rally behind, due to Anakin's celebrity status during the war.

    The disturbance they feel is meeting Yoda, not his power. In each draft, they only communicate after Luke arrives on Dagobah and is about to meet Yoda.

    He couldn't raise him and hide very well with him. Also note that even if there was a report, they're not going to find proof Luke was or wasn't their child. Just that they raised him. All of the conspirators are dead as far as Vader knows.
     
  15. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Exactly my point, so some random child would not be able to do this so this ruse, trickery, mind game would not work.

    But in order for this to have any chance of working it has to be somewhat plausible. And it isn't just Vader, it is also Palpatine. See above for how some random child would likely not be as strong as Luke/Leia and thus give Vader/Palpatine less reason to think this child is a Skywalker.
    Also, Anakin was celebrated and his skill came in part of his Force connection. Same with Luke, he was able to blow up the DS because of him using the Force. Would some random kid be that good?
    If not, then the rebels might cheer for a while that they have the son of Skywalker but if he is killed in his first fight, now things are worse.

    Nope, Palpatine senses his power;
    So at least Palaptine could sense Luke's strength in the Force, maybe Vader could as well.
    Why would Luke meeting Yoda cause a disturbance in the Force?

    To the first, why not? Is Obi-Wan incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time?
    To the second, if there was a report and if Tatooine had records of who lived where.
    Then Luke would not likely be the son of Owen and Beru because he does not have their last name.
    Why would they choose to have their son be called Skywalker instead of Lars? And why would Vader think this?
    Luke called them aunt and uncle and he did have friends so they likely heard that. So that does not seem to have been a secret. The empire had informants on Tatooine and if they did some digging they could find that out.
    So a Luke Skywalker lived with Owen and Beru Lars and he called them uncle and aunt. With a Vader/Anakin that was related to one of the two, the conclusion is not hard. His wife had a child, Obi-Wan took that child to Tatooine and gave it to the Lars. Vader has no need to engage in far fetched conspiracy theories.

    Bye.
    Old Stoneface
     
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  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    A random child that's strong like Obi-Wan, Dooku, Mace and Maul would suffice.

    First, you're getting too far ahead of yourself. What Vader thinks is not what Sidious thinks. Vader is filled with doubt. Palpatine isn't. It takes the latter telling him that think it through to make the case.

    Second, Anakin's reputation is more about his deeds, than Force power. Not everyone knows the finer details, like being the Chosen One. Any Jedi could make the shot. If Obi-Wan, Kanan, Ezra or Ahsoka was there they could do it. Hell, Ezra from season one could do it.

    Why would Obi-Wan sense the Sith before revealing themselves when both were already trained? It's about causing a disturbance in the Force. Luke hasn’t done enough yet to be a cause for concern for Palpatine. Only by going to Dagobah does he create a disturbance. Just as the Naboo invasion that's about to begin causes Obi-Wan to sense a disturbance in the Force regarding the Sith.

    We know that they felt that the twins needed to be raised by families before training them. Vader doesn't know why Obi-Wan went there, either with a strong potential or if he found about Luke by chance.

    I'm pretty certain Tattooine has no public records on residents.

    To honor Shmi, who was family. My last name is not the same as my stepfather's, but we were family.

    Garindan could've done that, or not. That depends on if he's still there afterwards. In the end, Lucas changed it to him being uncertain.
     
  17. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 6, 2015
    It seems illogical to me, that Vader would not know Luke is his son by the start of TESB. The opening crawl states he is obsessed with finding young Skywalker, and the movie further supports this. The original version of Vader and the Emperor signalled Vader's shifting allegience, by pretending it is all news to him when in reality he's been searching for his son for a while, and plans to overthrow his master with the help of his son.
     
  18. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    He's going to be obsessed regardless because his primary job for the last twenty years has been hunting Jedi and the children of the Force.
     
  19. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I agree that Vader would know that Luke is his son but disagree that the original version implies that Vader tries to act like he has never heard of Luke before.
    First because he used the name in front of other imperial officers and they never looked surprised or asked, "Who is this Skywalker?" Implying that they knew about him as well. So if Vader is trying to keep Luke's name hidden he is doing a very bad job at it.
    Second, the original dialogue is;
    Vader makes no comment that implies Luke was news to him and he follows up with info about Luke's age and how Obi-Wan could no longer help him. If this was the first time he heard of Luke, how could he know all this?
    No, I think that Luke was not news to Vader, Palpatine or the imperials. What was new was Luke suddenly growing much stronger in the Force. Both Vader and Palpatine sensed that and that is why Palpatine contacts Vader. Consider, they think Luke is alone and has no one to train him. They know that Obi-Wan is dead and for some reason, never think about Yoda. So Luke suddenly growing stronger with no one to train him is notable. Esp since they can sense him half a galaxy away.

    @darth-sinister
    Are we just talking OT stuff? Films and scripts. Or is the PT a factor as well?
    We talked before about Leia's adoption not being know and that Anakin left Luke/Leia's mother not knowing she was pregnant.
    If the PT is included then Leia being adopted is known and Vader/Anakin 100% knows that Padme was pregnant.

    And how common are such children? Esp a child that is either an orphan or were the parents are willing to give up the child to a Jedi on the run?
    Remember, Obi-Wan does not have a lot of time nor lots of resources since this was after the fall of the Jedi and he is a wanted man.

    Again if Vader thinks that Obi-Wan has this convoluted plan to confuse Vader then it has to confuse Palpatine as well. If not, all it would take one call from Palpatine saying "Hey, Idiot, Obi-Wan is playing you, get your head in the game!"

    In general, the sensing of other Force users is not exactly consistent.
    Vader does not sense Obi-Wan over Tatooine but does sense him when they are closer on the DS.
    Both Vader and Palpatine sense Luke in ESB and from far away but in RotJ, only Vader can sense Luke outside Endor but Palpatine does not.

    But in both ESB and RotJ, does Palpatine talk about Luke's strength in the Force.
    So Palpatine is able to sense how strong Luke is.

    Vader knows nothing about the twins or the plans of Yoda and Obi-Wan. All he knows that Padme was pregnant and Obi-Wan took her with him when he left Mustafar. Padme later died and looked pregnant at her burial. So again, the simplest explanation for Luke is that Padme lived long enough to give birth and Obi-Wan took that child with him. No need to engage in convoluted conspiracy theories.

    Why not? They have ID's and Luke was planning to apply to the academy. That would sort of require some ID of some sort and a place to send the answer to the application. Plus Tatooine is part of the empire.
    And again, the empire had informants on Tatooine and Luke spent time with other people so his name was not a secret.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who?

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
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  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Such children were common enough that out of ten thousand Jedi, there were probably about half who were on par with the above listed. That's why the Jedi had a list in the Archives of all known potentials. A list that Obi-Wan had access to. If he has time to warn the stragglers to head for the hills, he had time to scan for one.

    Which is what happened in this scene.

    There are differences. In TESB, Palpatine realizes that Luke has some skill, but this isn't what trips his trigger because he could've contacted Vader sooner than he does. It occurs after arriving on Dagobah, a point where he will become stronger. Luke hasn’t done much in terms of training. In ROTJ, Luke has grown strong enough that he not only refused to turn, but has rescued Han. He's trained enough to be formidable now.

    Except he doesn't think that. He believes the evidence from Polis Massa the same way Obi-Wan didn't think that Geonosis was erased from the Archives memory. Both have to be taught a lesson by their Master.


    What ID? Luke took his with him and the Stormtroopers burned the farm down. Hence no ID. And there wouldn't be adoption records proving one way or another if he was a Lars named Skywalker or just a random child. As to Garindian...

    [​IMG]

    But he is only one informant. We don't know how many there are or if they're still there afterwards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  21. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2015
    The Return of the Jedi special edition is just embarrassingly bad..... the Noooo is in such poor taste and the new musical is god awful. I don't mind the extra effects (some are actually quite good - Xwings, etc) in ANH, but the greedo stuff (that's another thing that is embarrassingly bad now - looks like it was edited on an iphone) and the jabba stuff is stupid. I'm agnostic on TESB as I really like the new cloud city effects, but the new emperor/vader dialogue is bad and doesn't make sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
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  22. Blame_It_On_Lucas

    Blame_It_On_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Jan 29, 2004
    I'd be a lot more fine with the Special Editions if Disney finally paid money to remaster the pre-special edition versions.

    Other than that, the Anakin Ghost has grown on me big time, ESB changes are great, dig the ANH space battle and I like the Sarlacc being recast with Audrey. But still hate Greedo shooting second, Jedi Rocks, and don't like how Vader "Noooo" was inserted.
     
  23. Biel Ductavis

    Biel Ductavis Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    I concur. There's only one thing i really like and actually prefer from the SE: The 1997 Victory Celebration ending, especially for seeing Coruscant for the first time, outside of the EU, on the big screen.
     
  24. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    So, here's a really old post:

    Sensing is not an exact science.

    The Star Wars databank entry for Sith used to say "The dark side, for all its power, is ultimately hard to detect when required. A shadowy master like Darth Sidious was able to keep his presence a secret, even when sharing a world with the Jedi Temple"

    It's not really using the Force, so much as it is learning to mind their thoughts. I'll explain why this is and use examples from the films.

    First of all, the Jedi have been totally unaware of the Sith's continued existence for a thousand years.

    Lucas said that it's like walking into a fog. The Dark Side is everywhere and the Jedi are having trouble sensing it. Obi-wan senses something in the Force, but he doesn't know what it is or where it's at. And because Qui-gon told him not to center on his anxieties, he didn't investigate it further.

    When Obi-wan and Qui-gon arrive on the Trade Federation ship, they can sense the fear and unease from Nute Gunray and his associates. They feel that fear like a beacon in black of night, but they haven't determined what that fear is all about. They don't dig deep enough, instead they choose to wait until they meet for the negotiations. Had Nute and Rune entered the conference room, it wouldn't take long for the two Jedi to determine the reason behind their fear. That they had an invasion army and were dealing with someone sinister.

    Not long after meeting Padme, they discover that she's pretending to be a handmaiden and not her true role as the Queen of Naboo. Qui-gon uses this to his advantage when he takes shots at her on Tatooine. Lucas makes mention of this in the TPM DVD commentary. The reason the Jedi know this is because she has had little experience around Jedi, virtually none, and she has no idea that they were on to her from almost the beginning.

    Darth Maul had to rely on traces from the location device on the Nubian, to find them on Tatooine. And later had to rely on the probes to find Qui-gon. Neither Force user detected the presence of the other on Tatooine.Nor did Ben and Qui-gon sense Maul behind the door at the Naboo hangar.

    When Anakin meets with the Council, his thoughts are like an open book to them and thus they know what he's thinking about. It is in AOTC that we hear Obi-wan tell Anakin to mind his thoughts and feelings. He knows what on Anakin's mind and he totally disproves of it. As a Jedi trained in the Force and knowledgeable about how their thoughts and feelings can be sensed, they must take extra care not to be discovered by their peers or enemies. Yoda senses something from Palpatine, but he isn't sure what it is.

    On Geonosis, Obi-wan does not detect the Dark Side in Dooku. Nor does Mace Windu and the rest of the Jedi.

    Anakin tells Padme on Naboo that they could hide their relationship from the Jedi, in effect living a lie. Padme's not comfortable with this as she knows that the consequences of doing that would be devastating. However they decide to get married anyway and try to keep it hidden. We already know from Ian McCraig that Padme's going to try and hide her pregnancy from the Senate and the surviving Jedi, in episode 3.

    Also, on Tatooine in AOTC, Yoda senses Anakin's pain through the meditation of the Force. He also hears Qui-gon Jinn at the same time. Later, chasing Dooku on Geonosis, he senses Anakin's anger at leaving Padme behind, which is why he asks for his ship. It's not until after Dooku uses Force lightning that Yoda even mentions the "Dark Side". Pretty big hint, that lightning. ;)

    Of course, at the end of the PT, Obi-wan and Yoda were able to fake their deaths and the Sith had no idea of this.

    In ANH, Obi-wan felt the massive disturbance from Alderaan, but Luke did not.



    In the DS trench in ANH:

    Vader: The Force is strong with this one

    Not to mention Luke taking out the DS while using the Force. And the Wampa cave in ESB shows us he is growing stronger in the Force between the two films.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015


    So, we're watching this, and at one point the guy on the left said that George Lucas released the special editions to finance the prequels. Something about him not wanting to be beholden to a bank. What is this? Is this true?