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Anyone else see the 1st Battle of Bull Run (Manasas) Comparison? (minor RD spoiler)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Knight1192, Mar 30, 2002.

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Anyone else see the 1st Battle of Bull Run (Manasas) Comparison? (minor RD spoiler)

Poll closed Apr 5, 2002.
  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    66.7%
  3. What are you talking about, what's 1st Bull Run (Manasas)

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
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  1. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
  2. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    I did not see the comparasion between First BR and Borleas. I've been a CW buff for a great many years, and I don't see it.

    Unless the comparasion is the use of superior tactics, and steadfast lines then nope (Refering to Jackson here).
     
  3. BartSimpson-SithLord

    BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    I didn't catch the comparison, maybe because I wasn't thinking historically during the book or because later when I finished it tonight I was picturing the Vong as little final four refferes who were suffering the ultimate foul out. Could you please enlighten me on what the comparison is so I can see if I recognized it?
     
  4. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Err, theres really no need for this to be a poll.

    And my civil war may be a little rusty but how are you comparing what probably ammounts to an ambush to Manasas?
     
  5. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    Ok, so I just got RD today and have so far read up through day one. But one thing got me in the retaking of Borealis, Luke's comment of picknickers to Mara's idiots question when they saw Lando and the enegineers digging as the range approached. Course they had no idea what was going at the time so it just makes the comments kinda cute. But the first thing that flashed through my mind was 1st Bull Run because you had folks turn out from both Washington and Richmond to have a picnic and watch the battle.
     
  6. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Yep, that's right. Then when the Federal army was retreating back to the relative safety of Washington, the picknicker's clogged the roads and created much confusion. I'm surprised you caught that. I never would've. But that is very good, though knowing AA it was meant as a joke, but that does have historical backgrounds.

    The first time I read RD, I thought Luke said panickers which made no sense, that is until I re-read the book over the weekend.
     
  7. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I thought the same thing [face_blush]
     
  8. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Actually, from what I got out of one issue of Civil War Times, kinda have to wonder how much the civillians actually blocked the road. The basic thing we're taught in school is that the civilians from Washington nearly turned a monumental loss for the Union into a total slaughter. But then, we're also taught that the Monitor fought the Merrimac, which, until a certain grade, we're usually lead to believe the Confederates built from scratch. In reality, the Confederates took what was left of the old Union naval ship Merrimac, rebuilt her above the water-line as an ironclad, and rechristend her Virginia, which makes the actual battle the Monitor and the Virginia. Also, we're taught that 1st Bull Run was the first battle of any kind of the war after the siege of Ft. Sumnter, though the Battle of Big Bethel actually took place the month before. But Big Bethel was a minor battle compared to Bull Run.

    From the CWT issue I'm refering to, it sounds like the civilians were actually pretty orderly in their retreat and the Union Army was in even great haste than we're lead to believe in school. Though some civillians did take part in the battle, senators who decided they wanted to share in the "glory" of a sure victory.
     
  9. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Big Bethal was a very small skirmish around a church if i'm not mistaken.

    From what I recall of my years of studying the CW (I specalized at Gettysburg though) was the civilians made a somewhat orderly, yet somewhat chaotic withdrawel back to D.C. which would block the roads for the military to get re-organized better. The Confederates could have destroyed the AoP (Army of the Potomac) had they followed up their victory and crushed the disorganized Federal army. You might think why did they not follow up? Well, the Rebels were elated at having won, and they too were disorganized. You have to remember that the Rebels almost and I mean ALMOST lost that battle had it not been for Jackson's brigade keeping their ground and buying time for Confederate forces to re-organize a defensive line behind Jackson and bring in re-inforcements of their own.

    Don't you just love those historical discrepencies? Yes, the Virgina was actually a captured rebuild Federal ship and re-named the Virgina. The battle kinda goes down in history like Bunker Hill which was actually fought on Breed's Hill and Teddy Roosevelts famous charge, which they charged on the wrong hill.

    I had a subscribtion to CWT for a while, but I did not read it too much, so I cancelled it.

    I'm sorry if i've rambled on here for awhile, I tend to do so with regards to the ACW.
     
  10. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    Bunker Hill certainly is an intresting battle to bring up, or more to the point, the exact location. I remember back in '94 it being said that it was generally agreed that the battle took place on nearby Breed's Hill, but was also brought up that because of various records, they couldn't be totally certain.
     
  11. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 21, 2002
    Some historians are in dispute over that battle? Interesting. I've always liked the ACW better than the AR, but I thought it was generally agreed upon with Breed's Hill. Though the disputation does not come to much of a shock, since it was named wrong and i'm sure some kind of battle had to have happened on Bunker Hill.

    Perhaps tommorow, i'll do some research on the battle. This kinda intrigues me. You never know, it could've been named right after all.
     
  12. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Who knows. Could have been named right, could have been named wrong. And the possibility exsist that somewhere along the way, the names of the two hills could have been switched, making them both Bunker and Breeds Hill. Though that last is extremely unlikely.
     
  13. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 21, 2002
    This is something that I never would've visioned of talking about the American Civil War at a Star Wars forum. Heh.

    The last possibility would be pretty strange, though it is certainly possible with the late 18th century ability to keep records. Though, I do find it odd how a major battle in a major war (albeit little loss of life compared to the CW or later wars) could be recorded wrong in the history books and among historians.
     
  14. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Hey, at one time I was almost always mentioning, whenever someone asked if it was okay to discuss some non-Star Wars book, that this forum is geared mainly towards discussing Star Wars lit, but we also discuss other lit as well as history. Especially when Star Wars comparisons can be made. And this isn't the first time I've brought up the American Civil War.
     
  15. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 21, 2002
    I have seen some discussion not regarding SW and I have brought up WW2 references before. Man, I should've started posting back in '00 when I first started coming and browsing the forums. **Sighs**.
     
  16. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
  17. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
  18. Nom Anor

    Nom Anor TFN Books Staff star 4 VIP

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    Mar 4, 2000
    The battle in Rebel Dream is actually based on an Allied defense in World War II. I don't have my copy of the latest Insider nearby, so can someone that does fill us in on the name of that battle?
     
  19. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Up. And not what I was getting at, Nom Anor. Mara asks Luke "What do you think? Idiots?" and his reply is "Picnickers." 1st Bull Run is kinda famous for folks turning out with their picnic baskets to watch the battle. That was the only comparison I could see between the two.
     
  20. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
  21. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Up. One day left. Get counted.
     
  22. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    One hour left. If you're looking to vote in this poll, better do so soon.
     
  23. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    This poll is closed. I thank all those who particapated in it. As soon as I get around to it, I will post the results on my site for all to see.
     
  24. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 21, 2002
    Yay, this topic again.

    The only Allied defense I can think of right now that might tie in with this is the defense for Bastogne in the battle of the Bulge. It was when the 101st "Screaming Eagles" paratrooper division held the critical CROSSROAD junctioin for weeks, and while outgunned, outnumbered, outsupplied they held on and they survived long enough for Patton's third army to break through.

     
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