AOTC Chapter 13: "Encouraged to Love" DISCUSSION

re anakin condemnation on his lack of professing true love for padme. i think it goes deeper than aotc - it began with TPM. the really tender scene between padme and anakin when he gives her the necklace. actually in the novel of TPM anakin specifically says he will marry her and that he already feels a deep connection to her. remember when he asked, "are you an angel?"

 

But I think the difference is that Padme LOVES Anakin, but Anakin is IN love with Padme. His love is based on romance, passion, possession, need and desire - hers seems to be based more on caring, compassion and devotion, wanting to be there for him and look after him.

That's a very good point you make here - i guess i should've seen this in your first post but didn't.

I think though that Anakin loves her in every way you described for the both of them - he just has the posession layer thrown into it.

I think this ties in with his sense of superiority - he feels he's above everything else and wants the power to change things to fit his design.

It's the most simple form of 'caring' he knows and eventually it's at the top of his list.

In TPM he geniunely cares for her, he's basically Padme there. In Clones, with his status of being a Jedi (and Palpatines influence), the posession part has been born in his mind. And RotS..

 

That's a fair point, too - I think maybe I have been a bit hard on Anakin. He does care for her dearly, of course - I just feel very uncomfortable with the way he puts her in such difficult positions, and effectively asks her to give up her career for him. I guess it's just as George Lucas says on the commentary - Anakin is just young and spilling his guts out. He's naive, and he lets his passion rule over his judgement. There is a definite change in Anakin between TPM and AotC in the way he loves her, though.

 

To me his on attachment based love and subconscious need for her starts right after he leaves his mum....he is in space, cold, alone, realising he's on his own...


Oh yeah about the love thing..to me it's really like this:

Mum: 'But you two make such a great couple...why don't you two go steady? Don't you like her?!'
Son: 'Mum, I could come up with a thousand reasons, the thing is i'm just not in love with her...'

You can unconditionally love a person, but it takes the 'beeing in love' to make the circel complete and go for it. (At least that's how I do my thing! )

It is the realisation of the marriage between the compassionate and the uncompassionate, the conditional and the unconditional.

Anakin seems to dwell towards separate directions if you ask me...

Great Topic.

 

Well, I think in TPM Anakin has an idealized love for Padme, as exemplified by his asking if she is an angel. He's spent his short life in heat and squalor and bondage, in a place where there is very little beauty, and suddenly one day in walks this sureally beautiful girl. So he immediately connects this vision with an idealized being. He also, as shown in the japor snippet scene, transfers his need for his mother onto Padme. He is only 10 and not yet into puberty, so sexuality doesn't enter into it at this point. But...

Flash forward 10 years. Anakin has been full of raging hormones for awhile now. One could speculate that all his fantasies about sex (which we all know occupy very large amounts of adolescents' time and energy)revolve around Padme, his idealized mate. This completely clouds his ability to remain detached and to regard Padme with compassion alone - he's obsessed with her, and all that testosterone doesn't help. All he knows is that he's alone with this woman he's been fantasizing about forever, and it's driving him mad. One thing Hayden does very well, and I saw it in this scene, is to project sexual energy; one feels he is almost overwhelmed with lust. That's what's driving everything. I suppose if Anakin were asked directly: "Do you love her?" he would of course say yes, and he no doubt believes it's true. But it's a very immature, very gonadally driven love. I think eventually and for a few years Anakin does mature and experience a more adult love for her, but as we will see, it goes disastrously wrong in the end. I think the reason so many people were uncomfortable with the love story is that although we know these two have to get together for the sake of the story, we also know it's going to end tragically, so we can't root for them the way we did for Han and Leia.

 

Right. I'm always very interested about what would have happened had everything been OK, had Anakin not turned to the Dark Side - what would have happened after, say, 5 years? After that initial passion wears off - does Anakin have enough true, caring love for her to enable the marriage to survive, for the bond and the love and the friendship to develop between them? How long would it have lasted?

There is a huge difference between the romances of Anakin and Padme and of Han and Leia. Anakin and Padme's happens incredibly quickly during the course of AotC - literally, they meet again after ten years, and after a couple of days, they're married - rushing into things a bit? I know it was a common thing after the outbreak of the two world wars that couples would get married before the husband would go off to fight, and I think GL is playing on this idea - but they certainly do get married very quickly. On the other hand, Han and Leia's romance is a more affectionate, caring, slow-building relationship, that builds up slowly but strongly over four years. It's really no surprise which one lasts longest.

 

I know it was a common thing after the outbreak of the two world wars that couples would get married before the husband would go off to fight, and I think GL is playing on this idea - but they certainly do get married very quickly.

Wow! Very impressive DMM, and perceptive. I think you're spot on!

I also agree Anakin's love for Padme has changed as things move on. That "are you an angel" is Anakin telling that Padme's a true sight to behold, which then changes to possessive, especially with being away from his mother.

Lucky for him Padme eventually falls for him, with true affection and unconditionally. For the latter, Padme shows it during Anakin's confession. Anakin is totally dismayed and hurt with has happened and what he has done, going throught the motions, yet Padme is patiently trying to make him feel better. "to be angry is to be human".

Now that is Unconditional,IMHO.

 

Great ideas everyone!
I myself am not too fond of this scene. I think the dialogue is too direct, too in your face...wich works of course, after I read this discussion ...but I would've liked a dialogue in a la the extended arrival on Naboo better; the two connect, the dialogue is a bit more personal and informs us a little about what they have been doing in between TPM and AOTC.

I understand what this scene is about though. It establishes that Jedi are not allowed to love/marry and that it is known to the public (Padme knowing about it). It's typically Anakin to bend those rules a little, and I love the confused look on Padme's face after Anakin says she's been in his dreams. The look on Anakin's face after that is great too, he realized he has gone too far.

I like the little skirmish between R2 and the buffet-droid. Its a funny little thing, and R2 is one of my fave characters in the saga.

 

look at the growth of the relationship on both sides from the 1st padme/anakin scenes and then forward to the intensity (passionate concern) of anakin when padme falls out of the ship when our heroes are chasing dooku. yes, it might be an expression of potential loss of a possession but it reads much more deeply than that. and how perceptive of obiwan to influence anakin's actions by referring to "what would padme do?" - it changes his decision 180 degrees.

 

The trouble with people in this kind of love, as this is still very much the hormonal stage of love before you love someone for a reason, is that it's really one-sided until you hear what the other person wants.

The trouble with Anakin is that he's been nurding his unrequited love for ten years and he's so afraid of being rejected and going against the Jedi beliefs.\

I agree though that love is something Anakin doesn't really understand and he uses it to fill wholes in his life.

remember when he asked, "are you an angel?"

I think we ALL remember that scene!

 

"Are you an angel"'s coming up real soon to discuss over at TPM.

 

Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 14: Yoda and the Younglings DISCUSSION will be made available 12:10 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

-Moleman1138

 

Best chapter in the movie, in my opinion. Anakin is great and realy defines his belives.