Discussion in 'Communications' started by YodaJeff, Jun 3, 2002.
Ignore the naysayers. You are helping, and it is greatly appreciated.
Anyone who provides links for a thread that is redundant or helps out via PM is providing a great service. It saves the time of searching and I can simply say 'refer to the thread provided by whomever'.
The only bit of advice I can give is to make sure that you are not providing a link to every single thread created in the film forum. Although many threads are redundant, not all threads can be treated as such.
There is a fine line between locking for redundancy and being overbearing. I believe the best bet is to PM an admin with a link stating that you think a particular thread is redundant.
Sapient: I agree. I was talking to YodaJeff about this yesterday. I think there is a line between being helpful, and being OVERLY helpful. When someone is posting references in EVERY thread then I think one is being overly helpful. And I think this is where people get annoyed. People probably feel that they can't start a conversation without having a link posted or a reference and then having their topic closed. I have been trying to participate more rather than just give references.
But, face the facts, most threads created now ARE redundant. Just because I post reference threads doesn't mean that thread needs to be closed...I am just helping out that person find some more information.
And a quick thing about PMing the mods. I assumed that PMing mods with a list of links would be annoying, but if I should do that tell me and I will. Especially if it helps facilitate the adminstrative duties in that forum.
Making sticky-thread would not take a lot of coding at all, I don't see why he never added it in the first place. Add another field to the database, 1 for sticky, 0 if not, then sort on sticky and date, not just date. I've offered to do this for free over at the IGN boards when they were open to anybody but the mods there just said nothing would be added because zs is gone.
BTW, keep up the good work, YJ. It may seem thankless, but the regulars apreciate what you do!
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with you or anyone else providing links to threads already in existence that deal with the same topic. I don't know if you all have noticed, but it seems to me that there are several posters that simply repost thread ideas under a new name every freakin' time! Of course, everyone can't always know whether or not their thread is redundant but there are certainly a lot of posters that don't even bother looking.
I think most newbies don't look...and it is driving me nuts!! We have some who repost the same topic without looking, others who post their topic twice because they don't see the "edit" button, and a ton of other problems. It's just crazy...and sad that these people can't take a little time to look if their thread is posted.
Plus, they could just e-mail YodaJeff, a mod or I and ASK if it's been posted.
This may come off as being offensive, and I apologise for that. I do not wish to offend anyone.
I do find it annoying when people just link to other threads all the time. It seems to be all they do and they hardly ever actually contribute to the discussion. KnightWriter, GriffZ and numerous others did this in almost every new topic and you just knew that they were just trying to become mods, however much they may deny it. Indeed, GriffZ's efforts have paid off.
Instead of posting a link for impatient newbies who can't be bothered to find the appropriate topic, just don't post anything at all. Wait for a mod to come along and lock the thread. If they are too lazy to take a few minutes to look for a thread then why should we a)post in their thread at all b)'Help' them by posting a link to another thread? Once they find all their threads being locked with no replies (except for the one from the moderator who locked it telling them to post it in another thread), they'll soon stop posting them.
Please, stop being sycophants and let the mods do their job.
Mods are here as volunteers. They don't get paid. So, anything we as regular users can do to help them isn't just right, its appreciated.
And most often, when a link is posted in a thread, then everyone who reads it is redirected and that thread drops back a few pages. This way, it doesn't need a mod to come along and lock it. It ends up deleted in a few days anyhow. It saves the moderators that much time it would have taken to close the thread and provide and explaination and a link of their own.
If you assume that it is sucking up, then that is too bad. Some of us actually care about these boards and want to help out, regardless of any rewards. The admins are aware of who is consistantly interested in the betterment of these boards, and who is just brown nosing. If you have complaints, you can speak with a member of the advisory council. They aren't mods themselves, but represent the regular members and have imput on the decisions made.
why should we a)post in their thread at all
to let them know that their thread is redundant and to give them the opportunity to close their own thread before it gets locked by a mod - which would help the mods be able to "patrol" the boards without hinderance
b)'Help' them by posting a link to another thread?
You post a link in the thread to show them where the ongoing conversation is. Then they'll know where they can talk about their topic. It's not campaigning to become a mod, it's being helpful. We could use more helpful people around here.
And the whole point is that posting links [i]is[/i] helpful. So I see no reason to tell people to stop.
"KnightWriter, GriffZ and numerous others did this in almost every new topic and you just knew that they were just trying to become mods, however much they may deny it."
So anyone who's ever tried to help out by posting a link in a redundant thread wants to be a mod? Good. I'd rather have people who want to be mods get promoted than people who are indifferent to the whole thing.
I guess it's a lot more fun to think there's some secret motivation behind everything.
Altruism isn't quite what it used to be, it seems.
I did what I could to help out. Often it was quietly messaging a moderator, not posting links. I was as discreet as I could be.
All hail YodaJeff !
I ran into this thing awhile back. You just have to shrug it off. As long as your polite about it you're doing the right thing, so don't worry what people think.
Maybe it is more fun to think there's a secret motivation behind everything. OK, I'll pretend that your motivation wasn't to become a mod and say that you were actually trying to help Sapient.
So anyone who's ever tried to help out by posting a link in a redundant thread wants to be a mod?
Not necessarily. It's people who do it almost every post who are the sychophants. It's not that they're linking to the threads that is annoying, it's the pathetic motivation behind it.
IF that is true, KnightWriter, then kudos to you.
Most of the complaints about posting links, IMO, come from newbies. (This is NOT a bash on newbies, btw, just an observation.) Newbies haven't been around here enough to be invested in these boards. They show up wanting an answer to the question on their minds right away, which I don't blame them for. But then when they get links posted or when they get locked, they don't understand why they're topic isn't good enough, and they tend to jump to the conclusion that this is a popularity contest about whether you get to have threads here. And then the problem arises because not having been around long enough, they don't know what a ridiculous zoo this place would be without helpful link posting and/or locking redundant threads. Most who are here long enough have enough invested in these boards to understand that.
Most of the time, it is just a lack of experience at these boards that, in some ways, results in a natural human response.
But please just take a second to think about the process here and you will realize there is no need to lash out.
barnsthefatjedi - It's also pretty pathetic to just assume people's motivations. Even if all but one of these posters had a secret motivation to be a mod, wouldn't you be ashamed of yourself for lambasting the one guy who was just trying to help?
Personally, I hope that one guy is strong enough not to let the criticism get to him.
OK, I'm going to withdraw from this discussion as I can see it degenerating into a flame war. I've said what I wanted to say.
Here's a thought. Is there a way to get across that someone does not need to read an entire "100 page" thread to get their question answered? I think that what might be offputting to some people. I think if they realized they could ask their question on page 100, rather than having to read page 1-100 to find the answer, and get it answered, then they would be happy.
Is there a way to get across that someone does not need to read an entire "100 page" thread to get their question answered?
I don't know of an easy way. It could be said in one of the reference thread (it probably already is), but the majority of the people don't read those.
Btw YodaJeff, I see you've posted another AOTC related thread (albeit in another board but still). That's 2 for you now, isn't it? I'm so ashamed of you!
I know, I better watch it, especially if they ever kick in that "5 new threads per user for their entire lifetime here" rule.
I remember once I was told by "link posters" that they weren't doing what they were doing because they wanted "recognition" - just to be "helpful." That may be fine, but then don't put "fastest linker in the west" in your signature! I know that a lot of "quick-on-the-draw" linking was done for effects. Hell, it's nice to have GriffZ or someone else say: "Excellent", or "you're a god."
Change philosophy for a second. What "linkers" do is personal. We all have a reason why we come here. You could write a book on sociology about how different types of people behave in a forum.
I honestly believe that "linking" and finding links instead of joining the discussion is an "anti-social" enterprise.
You're not "getting down with the posters." You're doing a job that isn't even yours.
"Just to be helpful?" "not for yourself?" Whether you are made mod, or whether you pat yourself on the back for being the fastest, you are always getting "something out of it for yourself." I take Han Solo's view on this.
Anyway...linking is enforcing an order that "you" may believe or that the mods may believe...but really, it is personal.
SOme come here to blab and to be heard. SOme come to find mystical answers. Others come to escape their wives. This isn't an iformational site only. It has ideas form hundreds, thousands of people on it! They all add little twists.
So, if you link, link to get people excited about an aspect they've missed. Give them the option to:
1. close their own thread if they feel it's redundant.
2. Or Utilize the links you've provided to beef up their own material.
Frankly, once a redundant thread's been posted...you have two threads: one which has to be locked. But you could lock the old one as well! Why don't we? Because we feel, we believe, personally, that 40 responses in an old thread are a volume of data to be dealt with before you should speak. Or that someone on that thread will want to respond to you - self select you to respond to - if we send you there. But it is a false order to things. When we link, we are really enforcing "reading." Not everyone here wants to read! We are definitely projecting what we want! But to make people read...you should get down and read too! Get involved!
Read what they are saying. You can't select out the people you don't like!
Personally: I am addicted. I waste my time. Probably I will fail the Bar Exam in two months. So, I'm leaving shortly. I really loved the way Knightwriter did his work. I also enjoyed YJ's work...I like YodaJ as a person - what I've gathered of his person from his writing...but I'm not so into the "linking competition."
If you think linking is important...it's your way of believing a purpose to this forum...and you are imposing it - whether you think it or not. You want order!
But have you ever thought what would happen if people stopped posting new stuff? Things would become awful. You need fresh blood. If you go back and look at the way topics have changed over the last month...you'll see how people are narrowing down topics. It's really interesting!
There's a whole process at work = trying to come up with something new. Different voices.
Don't quote me.
very well said! thank you!