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AOTC Redundancy - Linking to existing threads

Discussion in 'Communications' started by YodaJeff, Jun 3, 2002.

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  1. Kerr_Plunk

    Kerr_Plunk Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2002
    repost from page 1 of this thread (which for some reason was never addressed):

    i have a question (for Mods) ...

    is it enough to just post a link in a redundant thread, or should we post a link and PM a mod, or just PM a mod with a link to the redundant thread?

    i would think, Adoniah, that if you were to PM a mod and supply not only a link to the thread in question, but also an alternative/official thread, that that would help clear up the problem with offering the poster a reference*... ??

    (*the Mod could then provide the link)
     
  2. Kadue

    Kadue Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Score for Kerr. Every time I try to provide a link when I close threads, unless they are blatantly obvious. If you already have the link to a non-redundant thread handy, sending that to the mod isn't a problem at all. Well, for me at least.
     
  3. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Alright, I'll say my thing, and likely get shot down for it, but whatever.

    I recently took part in a thread complaining about Adoniah and YodaJeff in the AOTC forum.

    In that thread, I stated the following;

    I'm not in favor of redundancy, and neither are 95% of the people who complain about Adoniah and YodaJeff's linking habit.

    My issue with those two comes from a few things.....

    1. They never seem to discuss the films. I've seen each of them post dozens of times in the AOTC forum, and honestly I cannot recall seeing either one post something about the film. All of their posts seem to be links to similar threads, in threads that eventually get locked. It's one thing to help the mods out, it's another when you exist solely to link people to other threads. Now I'm sure both of them will come in here and cry "We post and discuss things about the movie ALL the time, where have you been?" but that's simply not the case, in my experience.

    2. There was one thread in particular that bothered me, and I think it was Adoniah who did it. A guy posted a (likely) redundant topic about what constituted "balance to the Force." It was honestly a harmless question, and while redundant, it was easily answered in a single sentence, which I provided. Now before I posted my one sentence answer to the question, which effectively gave the guy who posted the thread all the info he was looking for, Adoniah had already come in, posted a link to another thread, and left. It struck me as extremely rude to link the guy to another thread, effectively getting his simple question locked, when it would've been MUCH easier and MUCH more polite for Adoniah to simply answer the guy's question, THEN tell him that it was redundant and would probably get locked.

    The fact that he posted a link to another thread, giving the newbie the runaround when all he wanted was a simple answer, seems really rude, and very much against what would seem to be proper etiquette for an online community.


    That's my 2 cents.
     
  4. Liz Skywalker

    Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2000
    methinks they've answered all those challenges already. this thread seems to be going around in circles.
     
  5. Sebulba-Dug

    Sebulba-Dug Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    AmadeusExMachina: Exactly what I said on the last page. I'm glad someone agrees.
     
  6. DarthCyruellen

    DarthCyruellen Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
  7. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    *edit*, you're part of *edit* that is messing up this forum for me

    Interestingly enough, this forum (and all the forums) is not just about you, or any one person. It's about everyone.
     
  8. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Liz Skywalker-

    Unless their answers to those challenges were "We went a little overboard and we're sorry," I don't think they really answered properly. I doubt they apologized.
     
  9. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    KnightWriter-

    There's a difference between helping to keep a forum organized and simple for everyone, and stifling any new discussions.

    When two members can effectively stifle any new discussions, that's not "good for everyone" at all, it's extremely detrimental to the AOTC forum.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't link sometimes, just that they should temper it.
     
  10. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    I understand both sides here, I believe. I was just saying that I like it when people look beyond just themselves and their own experience.
     
  11. weezer

    weezer Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Here are some answers for youAmadeusExMachina

    1. No offense but they've both been here longer than you. If you don't like the "We post and discuss things about the movie ALL the time, where have you been?" Excuse, tough, its true. ADONIAH32 for example was very helpful in getting alot of the commercials digitized and uploaded for all to enjoy.

    2. This is probably what Liz said has been talked about before. Some find it rude to walk in and ask something when its already being talked about at the bottom of the page. Also if people just sit around and answer questions all day it kinda defeats the purpose of a forum doesn't it? The link provides the answer, diffrent views on the subject, and maybe other "community building" discussion that couldn't really be relayed in one post.

    I'll agree with you on one thing. I do kinda think that some of the *offical* threads get a little to big sometimes and need to be pruned back. The usuall rule of thumb is that after something has fallen past the 5th page its up for disscussion. With the way the AOTC forum movies these days that doesn't quite work but I still think after a certain point "offical threads" should be started again. Or something.
     
  12. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    To quote AmadeusExMachina:
    "Unless their answers to those challenges were "We went a little overboard and we're sorry," I don't think they really answered properly. I doubt they apologized."

    To quote myself in an earlier reply:
    "I'll admit, there are times that I posted links that I shouldn't have. Sometimes, I only link to a thread because similar things have been said there. The links are to be used as references."

    And we're not trying to stifle discussons. I just feel that people who replied to these topics a few weeks ago don't deserve to be ignored while people discuss the same things today.

    Also, I do post in other threads. Prior to AOTC being released, that's all I did. I also post in the Community forum. I am also posting off and on in the Episode 3 (no spoilers) forum. I take place in a lot of discussions. The main problem is, the majority of the "new" discussions from today have been discussed many times in the past, and I see no reason to repeat myself.>
     
  13. ADONIAH32

    ADONIAH32 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Agree with Yoda I do. We don't stifle discussion or try to on that matter. We are trying to help out the forum. And I post in discussions as well, as you'll find. My posting in Episode III No Spoilers will begin this week, and I post in JCC and some AOTC discussions.

    But like Yoda said, most AOTC discussions are redundant now. So it's not like I just sit here posting links all day...I do have better things to do. But, when a redundant thread is started, we try to help the poster find more information on it--not to stifle the discussion.
     
  14. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    "And we're not trying to stifle discussons."

    The road to hell is paved with.....you know.



    "I just feel that people who replied to these topics a few weeks ago don't deserve to be ignored while people discuss the same things today."

    A few weeks? See, that's where I think the problem lies in this whole thing. Most people consider a discussion fresh if it hasn't been discussed within a few DAYS, and you're suggesting that if something has been discussed in recent WEEKS it is redundant. As many members have said, it's ridiculous to assume that just because you're willing to sift through 50 pages of threads to find one similar, that everyone else also would be willing to do that. It's too time-consuming, and after a topic has been dormant for a few days, I don't think there's anything wrong about allowing another member to have a crack at it.



    "Also, I do post in other threads. Prior to AOTC being released, that's all I did."

    That's all you should be doing, unless you're a mod. Mods will no doubt come in and say "he's helping us, so shut up" and all that, but that's ridiculous. Just make the guy a mod if you want him to help you, then he'll at least be in a position where nobody'll complain that he's acting inappropriately and being a nuisance with the constant linking.



    "I also post in the Community forum. I am also posting off and on in the Episode 3 (no spoilers) forum. I take place in a lot of discussions."

    That's great. However, in the AOTC forum you only post links, and so nobody who resides solely in that forum knows you for anything but the constant linking.



    "The main problem is, the majority of the "new" discussions from today have been discussed many times in the past, and I see no reason to repeat myself."

    Then don't repeat yourself. That's not a problem at all. Most people have the courtesy to avoid discussions which they find annoying because of their redundancy, and also avoid threads that they think will get locked. They don't take it upon themselves to kill off any new threads because they "already talked about that with everyone a few weeks ago, and don't think new people should be so inconsiderate as to want to discuss things that I already have."

    The way you put it, it honestly makes it seem as if you think that newbies are at fault for not being here 4 weeks ago to take part in the very first discussions about each and every subject, and therefore have no right to start up any new discussions.

    And that isn't good.
     
  15. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    On most boards, things from within the past few weeks aren't buried as far back as in the AOTC forum.

    Also, you don't have to go 50 pages back. There are plenty of helpful reference threads that exist to point out helpful threads. Also, a few members have sent me private messages, asking where to discuss a certain topic. I'm more than happy to help these people out.

    If there weren't redundant threads, all of the important threads would be within the top 5 pages, easily.

    Frankly, a lot of the older, "experienced" members are completely avoiding the AOTC forum. Why? Because of the redundancy. They see no reason to discuss something, when someone else will discuss the exact same thing a week later, and what they said will be forgotten.

    I'm not saying that new members shouldn't be able to discuss things. I'm saying that chances are, there is an exisiting discussion somewhere. They should go to that discussion, and join in. I have seen plenty of intelligent and well thought out posts by "newbies". I've also seen a lot of stupid posts by "oldbies." I've never said that it depends how long you've been here, whether or not your comment is valid.

    Let's say that you made a certain comment about a topic, for example, on why you think Palpatine and Sidious aren't the same person. There is a good discussion on this topic, as it is unique and interesting. Two weeks later, someone else creates a new thread with the same ideas. How would you feel? Would you be okay with it? or would you want people to discuss the topic where it originated, in your thread? Remember, there is a lot of good discussion in your existing thread. But according to what you are saying, it would be okay to say "Forget about what was said before, let's talk about the exact same thing again." Would you be able to sit there, and read people say the same things that were said before? I know I wouldn't.
     
  16. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Then maybe you're taking it all too personally.

    I really wouldn't care if I had a theory, the thread I posted my theory in was buried, and somebody came along two weeks later and posted my theory as their own. I just wouldn't join in on the conversation, since I'd have already done it.

    The difference between you and I seems to be that you just CANNOT ignore a discussion if you've already had one similar, or even SEEN one similar. You seem to take each even slightly redundant topic as a personal affront to your sensibilities, a position which I find baffling and a little disturbing.
     
  17. Gay-LenKenobi

    Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    Ignoring a redundant discussion ISN'T the issue.

    Only so many threads and be on the first page. If half of them are all about Sifo-Dyas, then THAT stifles discussion, because no one wants to repost their thoughts in every thread. Its just the same with reading 15 different threads on the same topic. If all that discussion can be condenced into one thread, then that means there is room on the first page for 24 more threads about different topics. Plenty of people just scan the first page and move on, so most threads that have fallen to the 2nd page are forgotten in such a high paced forum.

    Sure, some of the *Official* threads become very large, and Snowboards its self does pruning of over-sized threads. But the simplest solution is to just read the last 2 pages. Why is that so unreasonable? It is just plain lazy to refuse to read or participate in a thread that could answer your question just because you think it's easier to start a new one. Its also very rude to the person who created the older thread.

    But I think its most important to restate that this is how the moderators want these boards to work. It is the policy that has been laid down for some time, and they are going to enforce it. Everyone is welcome to post here if they abide by the TOS, but if they don't like the way things are done, there are plenty of other places for SW discussion. If you are really disgruntled about this, you can easily find boards that are more to your liking.
     
  18. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    "Just make the guy a mod if you want him to help you, then he'll at least be in a position where nobody'll complain that he's acting inappropriately and being a nuisance with the constant linking."

    It seems to me that the vast majority of people don't think they're acting inappropriately or being nuisances. It's just a very small vocal minority. And before you say they shouldn't be posting in links if anybody doesn't like it, that just isn't going to happen. You can't please everyone, especially on a message board of this size.

    Amazing.
     
  19. weezer

    weezer Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Amadues your main argument here is to just not post anything if you feel a thread redundant right? Well thats fine but you realize that not everyone on these boards signed up the second that the movie came out in theaters, right? There is a point at which no one would post in a redundant thread and the new member who created it would watch it slip away and leave cause no one pays attention to him.

    Its kinda a catch 22. Maybe you'd lose one or two new posters due to them getting the run around but at the sametime maybe you'd lose a few by ignoring them.

    The way I see it is they are being helpful. Some day even you might be posting [face_plain] s in Sidious=Palpatine threads and not adding anything. We can only hope that we still have people like Jeff and ANDO then to redirect people to where the discussion is or was.

    Contray to what some may say the mods can't be everywhere at once. PMs and links are helpful.

    Edit: and so nobody who resides solely in that forum knows you for anything but the constant linking.

    On another note. Jeff was also right that alot of members here don't bother with the AOTC forum at this point. IMO by "residing" solely in that forum you are missing out on alot of interesting and entertaining people on these boards.
     
  20. ADONIAH32

    ADONIAH32 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Bravo for Kenobi!!

    The reason people are getting upset is because we are "ruining" their discussions and "forcing" them to go to a 20 page post. There's the catch. We aren't ruining anything, but rather helping. As he said, it helps facilitate the discussions in that forum. If I walked into that forum for the first time, I'd much rather see an "Official: SOMETHING" thread for my topic than having to start my own. I think be having existing discussions we can make people feel more comfortable about eventually starting their own.

    The thing is, most of the time those original threads are on the second page, and no one bothers to read the second page of posts. For example, today there were probably 6 or 7 threads relating to the box office. The Official Box Office Thread was situated on the second page. If you look at the first page of the forum right now, there are probably around 10 locked topics.

    And YJ is correct. If older members went into that forum and saw 10 locked topics, it's no wonder they'd be warry to post in anything.
     
  21. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    "As he said"

    Psst, Gay-Len is a she.

    Amazing.
     
  22. ADONIAH32

    ADONIAH32 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Did I say he?! Sorry [face_blush]

    My time to edit has expired, so I can't change it
     
  23. Gay-LenKenobi

    Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    Hehe, it's alright. I had a few typos in my post that I missed the window to correct. :)
     
  24. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Bleh.

    Everyone's answer is basically "we've been here longer than you," "if you don't like it, leave it," or of course "they're helping, we love them."

    Of course, those're all pathetic answers.

    Most of YOU guys barely post in the AOTC forum compared to me and some of the other "vocal minority."

    The fact of the matter is, you guys are just more familiar with the forum and post more often in Comms, but if you check the AOTC board, the "vocal minority" is actually the majority.
     
  25. Gay-LenKenobi

    Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    I think the 'majority' is the people who call out "REDUNDANT!" or "3, 2, 1, LOCK!" in redundant threads.

    And instead of having a legitimate complaint against them, you henpick at the people who are trying to curb that rudeness by diverting attention back to the active discussion.

    And to dismiss logical reasoning as 'pathetic' because you diagree is immature and is perhaps the weakest argument you have presented.

    And do not assume you speak for any group of members until you have organized and they ask you to do so. Until they show up in force to make their case, there is no evidence that supports your claim.
     
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