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AOTC Redundancy - Linking to existing threads

Discussion in 'Communications' started by YodaJeff, Jun 3, 2002.

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  1. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    Most of YOU guys barely post in the AOTC forum compared to me and some of the other "vocal minority."

    No, I don't post in there, because it's absolutely insane. On the rare occasion that I do post, I have to go searching through page after page to see if anyone responded to what I said because the thread I posted in has dropped so fast, or even been deleted because it turned out to be redundant. That's not enjoyable in the least.

    Amazing.
     
  2. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    You just proved my point.

    No matter WHY you don't post in the AOTC forum regularly, you still don't, and so to speak up on this issue when you yourself haven't been too familiar with the actual forum itself at the time in question is unnecessary.
     
  3. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    AmadeusExMachina, what exactally would you propose? Would you like all threads to run rampant? Would you mods to be non-existant? What would make you happy? You haven't said what you would like, besides for us to stop posting links.

    Constructive criticism is a lot better than just complaining.
     
  4. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    "No matter WHY you don't post in the AOTC forum regularly, you still don't, and so to speak up on this issue when you yourself haven't been too familiar with the actual forum itself at the time in question is unnecessary."

    No no, you're missing the point. Let me do this in step-by-step format:
    1. I enter the AotC forum
    2. I see many, many threads that all look startling similar to each other.
    3a. I say "wow, this is absurd" and I live OR
    3b. I post something.
    The rest assume 3b has occurred
    4. I leave the AotC forum
    5. I return later, maybe an hour or two
    6. The thread I posted in is nowhere to be found, but there are countless threads all very similar, yet different than the last time I was in there
    7. I leave exasperated.

    This is not a forum I care to spend much time in due to insane redundancy. I tend to doubt how many people even are able to make the points they wish to make when the thread they post in drops so fast and likely receives little further response due to, and here's that word again, redundancy.

    Don't assume that because I don't post reguarly means that I don't visit the AotC forum nearly every day. That would be silly.

    Amazing.
     
  5. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    YodaJeff-

    Don't be ridiculous. I never said "no moderation" or "let redundancy go."

    I simply said that it's annoying and rude to enter 90% of the threads in that forum and post a link to another thread.

    It's pretty simple, really.
     
  6. Gay-LenKenobi

    Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    "enter 90% of the threads in that forum and post a link to another thread. "

    When that 90% stops being all redundant threads, I'm sure they'll be happy to stop. Until then, the admins have thanked them and encouraged them to continue.

    Most people find it far more rude when they start a thread and then 4 other people create threads about the exact same topic. That is annoying, that is rude, and THAT is what they are trying to discourage. The more people that see the threads and realize that it is just smarter to find and existing one than to deal with mods locking threads they open, then the forum will slow down and you won't seethis stuff so much. It has already slowed considerably. And I'm not alone in partially crediting that to their dedication.
     
  7. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Well, I find it annoying that 90% of the threads in that forum are redundant. I also think this is being rude to those who took part in the original discussions.

    EDIT:
    Exactally what Gay-LenKenobi said above. :)
     
  8. ADONIAH32

    ADONIAH32 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    I also find it extremely annoying that 90% of the threads in there are redundnat. And Amadeus, as mentioned, I am yet to hear you say what YOU want done and how YOU think things should be handled.
     
  9. Queenie Amidala

    Queenie Amidala Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    I don't have any idea why this is such an "issue".

    Why on earth does anyone have a problem with trying to eliminate that horrible scene of redundant threads?

    Gay-Len hit it right on the nose.
     
  10. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I've actually said SEVERAL times what my theory is, Adoniah.

    My solution would be for you to just let the mods handle the redundant threads, at least until they make you and YodaJeff mods for your great assistance in the AOTC forum.
     
  11. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Maybe this is just me, but I thought the redundancy was well under control. In fact, for the most part, I consider it to be as low as pre-AOTC conditions.
     
  12. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    DarthSapient, I agree that it is a lot better right now than it was a couple of weeks ago. It is once again possible to take place in a discussion, and still be able to find that discussion the next day. Things are definately back down at a more normal level. The 90% figure that I used above was in response to the 90% figure that was used by AmadeusExMachina, and it wasn't meant to be a generalized statement about what is currently going on. For example, right now, on the first page (with 50 topics per page), I only see 4 locked threads. A couple weeks ago, I wouldn't have been surprised to see 15-20+.

    Since there are fewer redundant threads, I have been posting a lot fewer links. I don't think I posted 5 links yesterday. And half of those links were just for reference, and not necessarily because the threads were redundant.
     
  13. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    "My solution would be for you to just let the mods handle the redundant threads, at least until they make you and YodaJeff mods for your great assistance in the AOTC forum."

    But the mods have said that they appreciate the help because it makes it easier on them when they lock threads.

    Amazing.
     
  14. ADONIAH32

    ADONIAH32 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    I am still confused as to why this is such a big deal. Redundancy in the AOTC forum isn't as big of a problem now. As YodaJeff said, there are very few anymore. Most links I post now are for reference and not redundnacy.

    I think people like Amadeus will find that the linking for redundancy will slow down to a very very low level. I will still link for references when needed, but I think redundant lockings will become nearly non-existant in the near future.
     
  15. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I found it annoying that it ever happened at all.

    If the redundant threads were so obvious and common, surely the mods would've noticed them themselves.

    As for your claim, Amazing, I still don't buy it. If the members are doing more moderating than the mods, then what's the point?
     
  16. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    "As for your claim, Amazing, I still don't buy it. If the members are doing more moderating than the mods, then what's the point?"

    Have you read what the mods have posted in this thread?

    GriffZ, on YodaJeff's initial post: This is so freakin' annoying, and I completely sympathize with you guys.

    MaceWindy: Hey YodaJeff, don't let the vocal minority of members get you down. I believe that I speak for nearly all of the AOTC forum members when I say that we all very much appreciate what you are doing.

    Padme Bra: We do appreciate the help.

    Kadue: Adding to the "WE Love YodaJeff" club. Seriously, ignore them, you are helping.

    Vertical: Ignore the naysayers. You are helping, and it is greatly appreciated.

    cbjedi: Oh, and ignore the naysayers YodaJeff. Your help is appreciated.

    DarthSapient: Anyone who provides links for a thread that is redundant or helps out via PM is providing a great service.

    Liz Skywalker: and can I say how much I appreciate it? you guys make my life a lot easier.

    As far as I can tell, the mods seem to appreciate the help.

    And it's not that the regular members are doing the work. It's that the mods can miss things. It's very easy to overlook a couple of redundant threads when there are so many others.

    Amazing.
     
  17. Queenie Amidala

    Queenie Amidala Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    Good call, Amazing.

    And it's not that the regular members are doing the work. It's that the mods can miss things. It's very easy to overlook a couple of redundant threads when there are so many others.

    We all know that AOTC is a madhouse right now. And it will stay that way for a bit, until the seasonal "fans" go away and the excitement of the movie dies down.

    Until then, there should be no denying that there is a problem with redundancy. I know this because it's not just in AOTC. It's all over the boards. The debate is really over how it is handled. Moderators are here for us...for you, for me. But, they "can only protect you. They can?t fight a war for you." They?re keepers of the peace, and they do what they can, the best they can. However, they rely on us, the regular members, the majority, to do our part as well. That means knowing the rules and following them. That means having the common sense and the respect and consideration for the whole, for everyone, for your fellow members. That means looking back a few pages before you post a new topic. (Newbie or not, this is not a difficult concept. It requires very little on the part of everyone.) That means having the decency and kindness to direct the lost to the proper place.

    I can understand people getting annoyed with only seeing someone post a link, saying "Redundant," "3...2...1...lock!" etc. That would tick me off, too. However, I believe that, for the most part, those who try to help out by posting links and such are doing just that...trying to help out. When I link someone, it is not my intention at all to offend anyone, to hinder fresh ideas, or to avoid discussion.

    Now, I don't deal with links in AOTC. That place is a zoo, and I only go in on occasion. Besides, it is pretty well taken care of. Although EP3 NSA is dead compared to AOTC, we still have our redundancy problems. In fact, Windy and I discussed this very thing today.

    I try to post links to the preexisting threads for two reasons:

    1) I hate redundancy - If there is already a thread for the exact same topic, there is absolutely no reason to have five replica threads. The Fate of Padmé and Sidious = Sifo-Dyas only need one thread each. That's it. So, when someone pops up with another one, with the first one sitting 7 threads down the page, it only seems right and fair to link the poster to the existing thread?in a constructive and civilized manner.

    2) Discussion - I find it extremely difficult to carry on a discussion of the same thing in 5 different threads. I understand not wanting to have to talk about every single thing in an *Official* thread, but for some things, there's just no reason not to. And for others, there still is no reason to keep up with 8 separate discussions on the same thing.

    You know what, let's say, for argument?s sake, that every single person that ever posts a link is power-hungry. Yes, they are on a power trip. They don't really care about the boards or their fellow posters. No! All they want is to ostracize their stupid co-posters and feel good about themselves. Geez, the losers...no respect for Republicanism! Only thinking about themselves!

    Okay...so what? Who cares? Even if the motives are totally and completely out of whack, what does it hurt you, the other regular member? If all anyone did was post links, never contributing to the discussion, still, what personal pain does it bring to you? It doesn?t.

    Of course, this is not the case. The people posting links for you have the best interests of the JC community at heart. They do, whether you believe it or not. So, I would like to thank everyone who is doing their part, contributing in whatever way they can, to making the JC a peaceful, fun place to chill out and talk about Star Wars and whatever else is on the mind.
     
  18. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    "Personal pain"?

    By that logic, nobody here can complain about anything, since nothing done on an internet messageboard can cause personal pain.

    As for the "mod thanking" I already said it 50 times, if the mods need some help, that's one thing. If they need help in EVERY THREAD then they're not really doing that good a job. They should just make you guys mods. That's your goal anyway, right?
     
  19. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    That's your goal anyway, right?

    That kind of overt cynicism betrays your true thoughts on the matter, I think.

    Some people like to help others just to help them, without having their own agenda (other than helping people).
     
  20. ADONIAH32

    ADONIAH32 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    I agree with Knight. We aren't the selfish people you assume us to be. We are kind to the newbies in that forum. We elcome them and help them find there way as they get accustomed to the board.

    And, is it just me or is this arguement pointless now? I feel like we're going in circles...we keep ending up at the same place we started.
     
  21. Crimson-Larko

    Crimson-Larko Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2001
    I agree. I was going to post this massive rebutal but after reading the previous post, I suggest we just let sleeping dogs lie.
     
  22. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    I was moderating the movie forums before, during, and after the release. As long as the forum isn't like the "during" phase, there isn't a problem. Even then, it was manageable.

    Sorry, but this thread with over 100 posts glorifying a problem that, in my opinion is no longer an issue, is what continues to perpetuate the false image of a problem. I truly appreciate the help with links. But as I've said, I had to learn the lesson between being helpful and overbearing.

    Every thread deserves a chance unless it is so connected to another one that it should be redirected. What I cannot do at this point is read every post in every thread. That's where the PM's really come into play.

    For instance, I don't participate as much in certain threads as others, but with a simple PM alerting me to trolling, cursing, and spamming is all it takes to stop that dead in its tracks.
     
  23. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    "Sorry, but this thread with over 100 posts glorifying a problem that, in my opinion is no longer an issue, is what continues to perpetuate the false image of a problem."

    I agree. The original focus of this thread was to get everyone's opinion on the issue. That has been done. Redundancy is no loger the ugly beast that it once was. Things have settled down to a more normal level. The argument going on now cannot be won by either side. It is becoming pointless for both sides to even try to argue. What is being argued hadppened in the past. Nothing can change that now. Everyone has their views, and I'm glad that I was able to hear from everyone who took part in the discussion, even those who didn't like the link posting.

    I think this thread has lived long enough. We aren't getting any new opinions. This thread has fufilled its requirement. The AOTC forum has settled down drastically. Therefore, if a mod would like to lock this thread, I would have no complaints. I am done discussing the issue.

    EDIT:
    In fact, I am requesting that this thread gets locked, but not immediately. I want everyone to be able to get in any final throughts that they have, so nobody is accused of getting the last word in before it is locked. I think that 24 hours should be plenty of time, so that everyone has time to log on, say what they have to say, and move along. This isn't really an issue anymore.
     
  24. AmadeusExMachina

    AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Sapient, you rule.

    Read what he wrote......it was a really polite agreement with most of my points in this thread.

    But yea, the argument is really moot. It was useful when we started, but not now.
     
  25. Sebulba-Dug

    Sebulba-Dug Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    YodaJeff and ADONIAH32:

    I see where you guys are coming from and that you are trying to help and I appreciate it. I also hope you understand why some of us find accessive linking just as annoying as redundancy. You guys have been real good about it lately. ;)
    I hope you guys didn't take anything I said personnal and that you understood my points. You guys are helpful...YodaJeff personally gave me a quick answer to a question I had when I was in a drunken stupor about a week ago. ;)
     
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