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PT AOTC without bad dialogue and romance scenes. How good is AOTC for you now?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Solister, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. Solister

    Solister Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2019
    "I like clones, they are cool, supportive, and friendly. And they are everywhere!"

    I was looking to some of the "Which is your least favorite Star Wars movie" and "Which are the worst Star Wars scenes" threads, and I think I can strongly assure the bad dialog and romance scenes is one of the main reasons people hate AOTC so much, and not going to lie, I included.

    So let's remove all those scenes, even if this makes the movie only 40 min long. How good is AOTC for you now? In which place it's on your rank?

    I was reflecting, and maybe even ádd some major Clone Wars scenes to fill the 80 min gap, and I think this does improve the movie a lot. Not enough to take off all the prequel hate, but assuming the declaration of CW-ROTS-RO and OT is my favorite streak on new cannon, this does make the sequence even better.
    Plus, it would have some great scenes such as the Geonosis battle and the Dooku arc, or the Coruscant "race" and the Kamino "factory".
    Ranking it, I think may go even better than all of the Sequels, not better than ROTS and worse than a great part of OT. I think it would tie-up with RO, so maybe my 5th favorite movie.

    So, "fixing" AOTC in these points, how good is the movie for you now?
     
  2. TheAnakinSolo

    TheAnakinSolo Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2020
    I like the romance scenes.
     
  3. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    I like AOTC just fine the way it is. It's one of the most unique and flavorful episodes in the saga.
     
  4. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Butchered. That is the word. I like the dialogue and monologue scenes and the romance scenes. AOTC is the Victorian piece of SW and should be let that way. The mosaic of different arcs (the romance, the investigation, the political intrigue) is unique. I love AOTC.
     
  5. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Movie would just be all action and plot. The romance scenes allow for character development and, despite slower pacing, provides levity from the assassination plot investigation. Also, Anakin and Padme going from Coruscant to Tatooine would definitely make the film worse.
     
  6. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
  7. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019

    What?:confused:

    Yes, "AOTC" has its share of bad dialogue . . . just like every Star Wars movie I have ever seen. Every single one. As for the romance, I never had a problem with it. Were you expecting Anakin and Padme to be Leia and Han 2.0? Their personalities are different from the OT couple, along with their situation. Or does this have to do with the fact that we all knew that Anakin would eventually become Darth Vader when he was romancing Padme? Is that it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  8. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    The relationship between Anakin and Padme is central to the PT and hugely important to the saga as a whole. The romantic elements of AotC were absolutely necessary and couldn’t just be skipped over. Cutting out the burgeoning romance between Anakin and Padme in AotC would mean that they simply get together off screen before RotS and Padme ended up pregnant.

    This would make the relationship between them less significant to the audience. Because Anakin’s attachment to Padme is what makes him so susceptible to Palpatine’s manipulations, we would be less on board with his character arc. If these “fixes” were put in place, I think that AotC and the entire saga would be badly damaged.

    I also really enjoy Natalie Portman’s performance in AotC, so I wouldn’t want her or the character of Padme to be diminished by these proposed cuts.
     
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  9. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 28, 2015
    That meadow scene is also a great character moment for both characters, highlighting the differences in ideology between them that will continue to simmer into ROTS.

    Also we wouldn't have the badass ad-lib of "aggressive negotiations."
     
  10. Bee Bee

    Bee Bee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    If you take out all of the Anakin/Padme scenes you lose scenes which
    - set up Anakin's inability to deal with loss and powerlessness
    - show Anakin's frustrations with Obi-Wan & the Jedi order which he openly vents to Padme
    - show Anakin's first major defiance against the order when he begins secret relationship
    - give the primary emotional set up for Anakin's fall in ROTS
    - give character development for Padme
    Whether you like the way these scenes were handled or not, they are integral to the plot that Lucas set up and losing them would be a disservice to the story.
     
  11. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 19, 2020
    I don't mind the dialogue, but I don't think Lucas knew what he wanted from Hayden. So the guy comes off wooden in his acting and unlikable in his character of Anakin. Hayden is a decent actor and he could have pulled off the role had he been given something to work with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  12. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Here's the thing. AOTC is definitely in my opinion the overall least-good SW feature. But the Obi-Wan arc and scenes in AOTC are among my favorite "parallel arcs" in all of Star Wars ever. I mean, if you take almost every film and break them into their two or three parallel storylines, you can get interesting mixtures. In ESB they're all great, in ROTJ Luke's story is rad and the other story is kinda meh, ROTS and TROS are to me kind of made up of equally middling components, TLJ and TPM each have one thread that's not nearly as compelling as the other two, etc. AOTC has, for me, the unique problem that so much of it borders on truly terrible, but the Obi-Wan stuff? I just love it. Not only do I love it, I think it's actually really good.

    More briefly, you can't really extract that stuff from AOTC or the Saga and have it make any sense, but that 40 minutes or so would, for me, rank above the rest of the PT, ROTJ, TROS, and SOLO, and maybe alongside R1 in the middle of my rankings.
     
  13. imperial scum

    imperial scum Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I like it even with the cringy dialogue. And John Williams love theme "Across the Stars" is amazing. I always had a softspot for AotC because it jump-starts the Clone Wars which TPM failed to do and i prefer whiny Hayden Christensen who acts awkward to little Ani.
    And Star Wars was always supposed to be a fantasy with adventure and romance.
     
  14. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    In its current state, AOTC ranks as my third favorite Star Wars film. I think a lot of the dialogue between Padme and Anakin that people cringe at is actually doing a good job of demonstrating how his romance with Padme had the potential to turn unhealthy, dark, and destructive, which sets up the events of ROTS and Anakin's tragic downfall very well. Anakin and Padme's relationship wasn't about setting up a happy ending; it was about setting up a tragedy, and I think it accomplished that very well. Padme and Anakin aren't an ideal romance. They are a tragic romance, and I think that tends to be underappreciated by people who critique the dialogue and the romance in AOTC. ROTS is my favorite Star Wars film, and AOTC is a strong leadup to it. I wouldn't change anything major about AOTC.
     
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  15. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 19, 2020
    My overall problem with the love story in AOTC is that most of it is, dare I say, unnecessary. From a story point of view, why was it necessary for Anakin and Padme to have to have a secret romance? Yeah, it adds atmosphere to their romance, but in favor of what? The only reason they couldn't be together was because of the Jedi Order, but the Jedi Order never finds out anyway.

    Picture a movie where the Jedi do allowed relationships, but they always warn the Jedi that they have to put the Order (and the needs of the galaxy) before their wives/familes. You could still have the exact same story for ROTS because the Jedi would all essentially tell Anakin that he knew the rules when he got married. Like, "Sorry about your nightmares dude, but don't expect us to have sympathy. We all always have to put the needs of the Republic before our wives and kids. Why did you think you would be a special case?"

    I understand that Lucas wanted a ROMEO AND JULIET type of complication for his movie, but imho, it doesn't serve as much more than window dressing. ...Maybe he only added it because he couldn't think of anything else and needed something to make the subplot interesting. It would explain why there is no set-up for Jedi not being allowed to have private relationships in TPM.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  16. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    But if they didn't fall in love, no Luke & Leia. :(
     
  17. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 19, 2020
    I just mean the aspects of their romance, not the romance itself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  18. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    Seemed like a very romantic romance to me, appropriately old-fashioned for the most old-fashioned trilogy in the saga. [face_dunno]
     
  19. Beautiful_Disaster

    Beautiful_Disaster Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2005
    AOTC is wonderful the way it is, in my opinion. The dialogue between Anakin and Padme was supposed to be awkward. One tends to sound like that when they are young and inexperienced in the matters of first love. When you're in the presence of the person that makes your heart flutter, you tend to say awkward things.
    We are talking about a 19 year old, after all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  20. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    I just skip most of the anakin/Padme scences on Naboo, always have. Some are good some aren't.

    It is my 4th fave movie.
     
  21. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I think it highlights why Anakin wouldn't seek help from the jedi, his resentment of not getting the things he wants out of being a jedi, and in a way the concept of how they're relationship and Anakin's attachments, in that way, could lead to destruction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
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  22. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    The dialogue should be awkward because love is uneasy especially when is both strong and against the odds. When I said Victorian piece about AOTC I meant exactly this: Anakin is not less awkward than Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice who confesses very clumsy his love to Ms. Bennett despite being a refined and well educated gentleman. Yes but not when it comes to something so deep and intimate and emotional like such feelings. Correction: Hayden acts it less awkward than Colin Firth as his character is just more open no matter how sophisticated the society is (practically the same). While, more precisely I should say that these are the Knight times of SW and something similar happens when a Knight confesses his love to a Lady. And is what happened in AOTC in brief. The Knight generally proves his love through some feat, something the Lady can ask from him: I'll do anything that you ask. Is what literally Anakin said in the fireplace scene.
    Also I don't understand why so many people expect from Anakin to act like Han Solo clone. I mean, why? He is an ex slave who later enters in Order of Monk warriors. Is not that he is exactly skillful at flirting (by the way, neither is Luke). And is not is that Anakin would ever care about it. He is all or nothing type. He doesn't care about games of attraction. He is ready to make Padme laugh anytime even by humiliating himself a little bit but that is different (Do you imagine Han Solo riding like idiot some space cow what Anakin did in the meadow scene? I don't). He has this mischief of the little boy in him that makes Padme feels alive: not senator, queen or whatever, but really as herself but as I said, it is different.
    Anakin is not the 'I'm the cool guy-bad boy-scoundrel' stuff. Anakin is in short, Lancelot. (hint: known as the Knight of the Lake, by the way and I think the lake is deliberately present). Lancelot is great knight, unstoppable warrior and loyal friend (Anakin in a nutshell), but guess what: in any variant of the legend he is not the womanizer type. Actually he is quite odd and a little strange while charming and that is the main reason that Guinevere paid attention to him in the first place. Is not because he is handsome: he is bit he is the type who tend to ignore that. Anakin is more or less the same; he knows that he is handsome (exactly in AOTC you can see that in the bar scene) but he just don't care about it. Han for example was practically offended by Leia's definition that he is scruffy looking: just look at Anakin wedding "costume" if I can say so. Or his haircut when he is not obliged to have the Padawan one. Is a mess while it suits him very well , but is not like he invest hours to arrange it. ;)
    Anyway, these 'awkward scenes' define who Anakin and Padme are and why they are ready to give everything about their love. And also is important that they say the things straightforward. There is no any conversations of the type: l love you/I know. They both say it all in the respective scenes. That's why it doesn't look smooth as it never was meant to be. It should be as it is: melodramatic and epic, matter of life and death: the thought of not being with you... I can't breathe. (Is not what happened in the end of ROTS?!)/ I was dying everyday since you came back to my life.. and so on...SW is a space opera, after all.
    By the way, if you look to more contemporary Lancelot type, then James Dean Rebel without a cause comes closer. And is not a coincidence that Lucas wanted an actor with James Dean-y vibe and not with Han Solo scoundrel vibe. It could be seen clearly in the romantic scenes, I think for the reasons described above.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  23. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I don't particularly like how the love scenes in AOTC were executed. But IMO they are still necessary for the overall story of the PT.
     
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  24. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    Very great insight and analysis of the situation @Tonyg =D=
     
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  25. Wilhuff's Slippers

    Wilhuff's Slippers Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2019
    It's my least favourite Star Wars film for a whole host of reasons, too numerous to mention really, but I will say that the poorly scripted and performed Anakin and Padme stuff doesn't even make the top ten of sins.

    That being said, I'm keen to give it a rewatch soon, as I've avoided it for the last decade or so.