PT AOTC without bad dialogue and romance scenes. How good is AOTC for you now?

Padmé certainly had other things on her mind than worrying about some tribe (no, just ONE camp of that tribe!!) in a remote desert on some unimportant remote outer rim planet. HER life had been threatened not long ago, her best friend was killed in an assault, and she worries about the state of the government which would affect the ENTIRE GALAXY. Would her being away from the senate not have a huge impact on the future of the galaxy? Was letting Jar-Jar represent her really a good idea? Was hiding away from all that be? EVERYTHING she fought for was at stake. Even her feelings for Anakin wouldn't have mattered much at that point. The entire universe's future was in deep danger! Then there was a clone army nobody knew about as yet another factor to worry about. Why the hell would she care about some alien desert tribe nobody on Coruscant ever heard of on a planet that played absolutely no role in galactic politics?
Wrong or right, what Anakin did was simply not important enough to affect her way of thinking or actions OR feelings.

 

I won't defend Anakin's actions. The subtext of the film doesn't even want me to, but for Padme, I can see how, whether she is disturbed or not, telling Anakin he did the wrong thing is really not the right time nor does it really affect much when Anakin's monologue is about how he knows he did the wrong thing.

Its reasonable for her to believe that Anakin has killed lots of people by the time of AOTC, and I don't think she would even justify that they "were all enemies of the Republic and probably deserved it," but she understands that is a consequence and part of the "tough" of being a Jedi. Pirates, secessionists, raiders, local civil disputes, etc. So Anakin killing people, generally speaking, is not necessarily where the shock lies. Even Leia doesn't necessarily question the violent crimes Han took part of before joining the Rebellion and after being a objectified slave for Jabba, you might think Leia would want to interrogate and question Han after that experience.

 

If a close friend of mine or family member or loved one came home and told me that they had committed mass murder, including women and children.
I am pretty sure I would have reacted more than "Oh well, things happen."

The issue isn't just that Anakin killed women and children, whether they are human or not should not matter unless Padme only cares about human lives.
It is also that Anakin lost control and went kill crazy. Anakin isn't a nobody, he has a power that most others don't have. So him going berserk would do a lot more damage than with most others.
Imagine if Superman totally lost it and committed mass murder in grief and rage.
That would worry a lot of people given how powerful Superman is.

That Padme was "busy". Not buying that excuse.
Did she ever talk about jar Jar or the vote once they left Coruscant?
She talked briefly about the seps when she was with the queen on Naboo. But other than that, she talked mostly with Anakin about their feelings and how they could not be together.
Did Padme know about the clone army? That is not established.
Has any kind of vote happened? Not that we know.
The whole army bill vote is ignored once Padme and Anakin goes into hiding.

Had AotC presented Padme as cracking under the pressure of what is going on in the galaxy at large. Had she talked about that a lot and been showed to be very disturbed by it. Then it might have worked.
Anakin was presented as worrying about his mother, that worked. So him going to save her makes sense and fits with how the character has been established.

That Padme would just shrug off mass murder does not fit with her character, at least not to me.
Nor that she would not be aware of the danger if Anakin were to loose it again.

Bye.
The Guarding Dark

 

As I said, she had MORE IMPORTANT things on her mind. Anakin is a kind of "close friend", while the Tusken mean nothing to Padmé. My guess is she hated them just as much as Anakin for what they did to Shmi. She is more diplomatic and hides her emotions better. But deep down I think she actually sympathized with Anakin, at least to some degree, if not 100%. So.... WHY WOULD SHE CARE????

Padmé never saw that, wasn't even aware he "lost control". Sure, it was an act of revenge. But why would she be that concerned about that particular one, in her situation? I'm sure she's seen revenge before, and wasn't as shocked as the audience wants her to be?

Padmé is not stupid. She knew something had been going on ever since those attacks on her life. She may not have known about the clone army per se, but sure sensed things were out of the ordinary at the beginning of AOTC.

Who says she hadn't? A lot could have been said in those deleted scenes at her home. Others were hinted at during the meadow scene. We clearly see she is worried, but not up to the point where she distrusts Anakin. Don't forget she was just as confused by recent developments as Anakin, just hid her emotions more.

Again, she might have. But what we are shown on Naboo mainly was the romance part. A lot more went on in her head that we are not told about.

As I repeatedly said, just consider the circumstances. Anakin's state of mind was not a priority for her. Nor did she have any reason to particularly fear the "dark side". Why would it even be real or important to her, being neither Jedi nor Sith?

 

There's an old saying, "The most thrilling part of an affair isn't the sex, it's the lies."

What's most interesting to me about their romance is that it's a microcosm of the rule-breaking, the declination of responsibility in favor of personal gratification, which is leading to the Old Republic's decline. The themes tie together quite well imo. They believe that laws and traditions shouldn't apply to them, and maybe they're right, but at the end of the story it is their hubris, selfishness, and elitism which concludes the tragedy.

A lot is made of the acting/writing, but I think it works well for the story. The dialogue is very literal and exposition heavy, but as Richard Brody observed, it has a psuedu-Shakespearean dialectic that is charming on its own.

 

God, if He wills, blessed me with a thought: What if Padme may have thought Anakin killed them in battle, not in the way of slaughtering them. What if that's what Anakin did?

 

Padme hated the Sand People, where was that established? Proof please.
If Padme only cares about human lives, that does her character no favors, it makes her a bit xenophobic and "racist" against other species.

That Padme might have some sympathy for Anakin, that he lost his mother and he lashed out with violence. That she might be able to understand it on some level, I could buy that.
That she thinks it is totally fine or even agrees that Anakin should have killed them all? That I do not buy for one second unless I want to make Padme into an evil character.

She could offer support while also saying that Anakin needs to tell the Jedi or Obi-Wan about this. That Anakin needs help. But she stayed silent.

And you have not been able to establish that Padme had other things on her mind to the point that she shrugs off mass-murder.

And again, the fact that Anakin did commit mass murder is enough to ring warning bells in anyone, regardless if they liked the victims or not.

So Padme thinks that Anakin committed mass-murder while totally calm and in control?
That makes it much worse.
This way Anakin does not have the "excuse" of grief and rage, he calmly and rationally decided to kill every last person in that camp, including the children.
If Padme thinks this then she is even more messed up than I thought.

Oh Padme is plenty stupid. She accepts going back to her home, which is the first place any assassin would look. She turns off the cameras in her room, which are there for her protection.
And Padme wants to solve the Obi-Wan situation by talking to the seps leaders. To do this, she lands somewhere and starts to poke around randomly in the hope that she will come across the leaders before anyone spots her. And she thinks that said leaders would not yell "How did you get in here? GUARDS!"
Sorry this is massively stupid.
If she wanted to use her diplomatic credentials and find a peaceful solution, then contact Geonosis and land openly and ask to talk with the leaders. Sneaking in and having her "boyfriend" start carving up the locals is a recipe for disaster.

Sorry, you make the claims, you back them up.
Saying "she might" have is not enough.
You want to make the argument that Padme is aware of what has happened after she left Coruscant, the clone army and all that. PPOR.

Not a priority?
If you are travelling alone with someone, that has a weapon and is a skilled fighter. If this someone then tells you that he/she committed mass-murder, including women and children.
That would not be a priority?
You would not have any concern that this armed person has totally lost it and murdered a lot of people and has shown themselves to be unstable?
I sure would.

In Padme's case, she wants to solve the Obi-Wan matter with talking and yet she lands in secret and brings along a person that not long before massacred a lot of people. And sure enough, when they are threatened, Anakin goes right back to killing.
They were intruders, the Geonosians had every right to treat them as hostile.

In addition of what I said above, how Padme's "plan" makes no sense, she should have considered that Anakin was not exactly in a stable frame of mind. He had just lost his mother and killed in revenge and hate. Not someone that is ideal in a tense situation that could escalate.

And Padme knows enough about Jedi to know that mass-murder in hate is not ok.
Even with non-Jedi, mass-murder in hate is rather bad and worrying.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

So i rewatched it last week and really really enjoyed it probably for the first time ever

I read something about Anakin and the fact he was an ex slave taken for 10 years by a cult so of course he has minimal social skills

Viewed under this lense Hayden for me plays it perfectly

Film has good action and adds significantly to Star Wars mythology

Combine that with a plot which makes sense on the whole and for me it's a really enjoyable film

 

Proof? It's common sense. The only person who was kind to her on Tatooine was brutally murdered, her son VERY understandably devastated. So sure, I'm very sure she must have LOVED the Tusken.

"He killed them ALL?" ONE single camp? Give me a break. She never said she was "fine" with it in any case. She was trying to comfort Anakin, and these are simply words you say to someone in that situation. Why do people always interpret more than there is into any movie dialog?

She was aware some kind of menace was coming. I didn't say she specifically knew about the clone army at that point. She was certainly aware the Republic was in some kind of danger. At that point nobody knew where exactly that menace was coming from. But I think it's safe to agree she had more important things on her mind (she is a senator) than some camp of bandits on some remote desert planet.

No it wouldn't. Anakin was her protector. He never would have allowed anything to harm her. Yes, and he had a mother as well. Padmé was not stupid enough to ignore how much he cared for her. He killed her kidnappers and torturers. Why she would see him as a threat to herself is beyond me. Han killed lots of people, and I'm sure not always in self-defense. He was a smuggler and gunfighter, and certainly killed BEFORE the cantina scene. Was Leia afraid of him? I certainly don't think so!

Honestly, I wouldn't. Nor do I think he was "unstable". Why do some people always have to bring "modern" psychology into the SW universe??? Society there simply doesn't work the way it does on this tiny Earth. Do you have any idea how many species there are? Thousands? Millions? Billions? And you want to judge them all by Earth's moral standards? Seriously? When the peoples of Earth - ALL human - can't even agree on moral standards? This seems somewhat preposterous.
Would love to go into this ethics discussion this thread has turned into more, but have no time now. I will when I have the opportunity though, if desired.
Bye for now.

 

Nobody really cares about Tuskens, who are described as "mindless monsters" two times in a movie. Especially Padme, who is a professional politician with real war experience. By the way, Cliegg Lars' description wasn't her first impression of Tuskens (the first was in TPM, when they tried to kill Anakin).

I studied Edgar Allan Poe's "Hop-Frog" at school. Hop-Frog is a king's ugly jester, who had a beloved girl Trippetta (who is also an ugly jester). In this story, Hop-Frog has burnt alive 8 people (the king and 7 ministers), because they heavily insulted Trippetta. It looked like that:

"The eight corpses swung in their chains, a fetid, blackened, hideous, and indistinguishable mass."

And, nobody (including Trippetta) considered him as a maniac, though that people wasn't monsters, who cannot even talk, and they didn't kill 27 people.

 

Anakin admits openly "And not just the men - but the women, and the children".

Tusken talk just fine - but their language is different from Basic.

 

That, for an alien species, doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't in battle.

 

"They're animals and I slaughtered them like animals"

So it was a slaughter, not a battle.

 

So with "Common sense" people can only feel one of two emotions about a group, love or hate.
No in-between, not dislike, not neutral, just one of the two extrems.
Again you make the claim, you back it up.
If you can't or won't, your argument has no basis.

The TF is working with the seps, the same TF that invaded her planet and starved her people.
And yet Padme thinks that the seps can be reasoned with.

No, I will not. He killed everyone in that camp. So he committed mass-murder.
Including women and children. In other words Anakin killed everyone he could find and only stopped when there was no else to kill.

This is rich, you interpret a lot about Padme based on nothing. That she hates Sand People, that she is "too busy" thinking about the galactic situation.
And yet you accuse me of doing interpretation.
Also I said that I don't think Padme thinks that Anakin should have killed them all or that it was no big deal.
If she did, then I would view her as an evil character.

Again, what should concern her is not just the killed Sand People, but that Anakin totally lost it and murdered a lot of people, including women and children.

And Padme is unaware of a lot regarding the seps.
She thinks that they can be reasoned with, hence why she opposes the army bill. To her, that would only provoke a conflict.
But the seps are actually building an army and plans to attack the Republic and Padme has no idea about this.
Also she for some reason thinks that the seps can be reasoned with despite their leader, Dooku, is trying to murder her.
How that makes sense is not explained.

How well does Padme know Anakin?
She spent about a week with him ten years ago, when he was nine and she was 14-15. Then she has not seen or spoken with him for ten years.
Then they spent, about a week together and during that time he has, been awkwardly hitting on her, staring at her to the point of making her uncomfortable. So much so that she turned off the cameras in her room because she would rather risk her own life than have Anakin look at her.
Then he tells her that he killed women and children.
Most people would be a little concerned here.

As for Han, had he told Leia in ANH that he went into a pre-school and blasted away, then I would think that Leia would be disgusted and also a little worried.

Going on a kill-crazy rampage is signs of being unstable to me. Esp since he part of an order that teaches control and mental discipline.

As for morals, the SW films are made by humans from Earth, for humans from Earth so our morality is the only one we can use to evaluate the films.
So any talk about what aliens would think is pointless.

The films has very clear morals, the Empire is the bad guys. Tarkin, Palpatine, Jabba, they are obviously evil. And with the Sand People massacre, I think Lucas made it veyr clear that it was wrong, that Anakin did something bad. I also think that Lucas would be horrified by the argument "Sand People are not human so it is totally ok to murder them, even the women and children."

The amount of excuses for what Anakin did, that it was not so bad or even good, I find them somewhat uncomfortable.

@dagenspear

As Iron_lord said, it was a slaughter and also, Lucas made sure to use men, women and children. HUMAN terms about the Sand People. Not males, females and young, which is more generic.
And I find it very unlikely that the children would attack Anakin. They would more likely hide or run away.
Sand People are established as easy to scare, and that was armed warriors. Why would the women and children fight to the death?
No, again, hiding or running away is what they would do.
And Anakin, since he killed everyone, chased after those that ran and searched the camp for those that hid.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

I think, all guards in existance will laugh at your comment.

Imagine Trump, who is hiding from terrorists not in US but in Guatemala.

No, the other person is plenty stupid, my friend.

 

I would suggest that you look up such things as "Witness protection program" and "Protective custody".
In a quite a few of these cases, the people under threat are NOT in their homes as those are obvious targets by assassins.
Instead they are hidden in secure and remote locations.
This could also apply to their families as they could also be targets.
And the job of the guards are made a lot easier if the location is not known by the assassins.

Further, they send Anakin and Padme to Naboo by having them pose as refugees on a normal ship.
If guards are always enough to stop assassins, why was this done?
Why not an official ship?
Well, as we saw, guards are not always enough. The ship was blown up and the assassin was able to get killer bugs in her room. And she had lots of guards there too.

So sometimes they have thought of the idea to keep them hidden, under the radar. It is a big galaxy. And they had another decoy staying behind to give the illusion that Padme had not left.
But on Naboo, no precautions at all. She walks around openly, any sniper could shoot her with ease.
And being on Naboo, in her childhood home, if an assassin is looking for her, that is an obvious place to look. About the only excuse is that they figure that being on Naboo is so obvious and stupid, that no assassin would think of it as they would not think Padme and the Jedi this dumb.

As for the President of the US, if an assassin had been able to get within seconds of killing the president while inside the White House, I would imagine that they would take stronger measures. And not send the President to live in his childhood house with one guard. I would imagine that there are secure locations that the President can be brought to and ones not known by the public.

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

This guard has already saved her life, though she herself decided to use herself as bait.

Yoda's quote:

"Our judgement she must respect." And Padme herself wasn't going to hide at all.

 

He constantly uses straw men and other techniques of dispute. When I said that Windu's death changed everything, because Anakin has become an enemy of the Jedi Council and it's hard to object Palpatine's orders, he said: "They won't find out." I said: "It is nonsense, they can easily find out, like Yoda and Obi-Wan has found out that Anakin has become Vader." He said: "They don't know about the murder of Dooku." I said: "It is nonsense, they know." He said: "There is a difference between kill and murdering." I.e. instead of Dooku's death he says about the circumstances of his death.

Or when he blames PT for "behind the screen" story development (which is actually "on screen", because we know about 10 years between I and II), but Han/Leia "behind the screen" love story development (3 years between IV and V) is OK. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Padme saw how Tuskens shooted at 10-year-old Anakin in TPM and heard about how they killed 27 people, including Anakin's mother. Possibly, she should love them.

 

Try and make some more sense.
What guard? You mean her double?
Who oddly enough thought that she had failed when she did exactly what she was supposed to do, take the hit for Padme.

Padme can use herself as bait while also having the cameras active. In fact that would be quite helpful as then they will see if someone comes. And have a greater chance of saving her life.
She had R2 in there but even when he "woke up" and looked around, he somehow failed to see the droid at the window. You know the most obvious place where an attack would come from.
And Padme is plain lucky that Zam didn't use a bomb, gas or other weapon as then she would be very dead before the Jedi could do anything.

Padme being told to go to Naboo can still tell the Jedi that it is moronic plan.
And if she isn't going to hide? Why go anywhere?
Clearly she feels there is no threat towards her life.
And again, she and Anakin travelled incognito. So hiding.

Bye.

 

Sorry, you are really not making much sense here. My proposal would be to take few minutes to review your posts before actually posting. Also, we now have Windows spell check. Would really save us all a lot of time. Just saying.

 

Strange. The novelization of AOTC had made it clear that Padme thought the Tuskens got what they deserved (something I believe the movie should have done) for kidnapping and torturing Shmi to death. She was wrong, of course. But her reaction seemed more like an example of her own moral failure. Like losing her temper in TPM and declaring a vote of no confidence against Chancellor Vallorum - an act that led to Palpatine's rise in power. Or changing her mind about supporting the use of the Clone Army against the Separatists after her attempt to free Obi-Wan had failed.

Padme was never perfect. What I find disturbing is this idea that she should have been. Why was it not okay for her to have personal flaws?

Yes, Anakin was a kid in TPM, but he had developed a crush for Padme in that film and it was obvious that his feelings had never went away by the beginning of AOTC. I think the latter film basically conveyed Padme falling for Anakin. If some found it rushed, well I guess they did. I had the same feelings about Leia and Han in ESB. Although Han did briefly flirt with Leia by the end of ANH, I never got the feeling that he was in love with her or had a crush on her in that film. Then to see both him and Leia exchanging longing glances at the beginning of ESB without any explanation or buildup remains confusing to me to this day.

 

AOTC has been my favorite installment since its release, so no changes for me please.

 

Lacking in important development.

 

Let's see. How many of you lamented the recent death of terrorists in Paris who were murdered by the police after they stabbed innocent people who had the bad luck just to cross the wrong street if I can say so? Or let's put it that way, how many of you thought: well these monsters deserved it? Er-rr... Is not easy to answer such questions, I know. But to blame Padme for reaction that is natural and therefore, realistic....I don't understand that. You maybe would argue that the case with the terrorists is not the same, as the police is the institution that have "license to kill" to protect the society. So in a way, it is not against the law, while morally this is also pure killing. Quite right, but on Tattoine there is no such institution. It is a lawless planet where vendetta is the only reckoning and that's why it is cruel and unjust as is Anakin's revenge.
Is not that Padme doesn't know that. She doesn't approve what Anakin did, that it is the point. She is just trying to help him to come back from where he fell because she sees how he is suffering from his unjust actions: by the way, th problem of revenge is that it is always unjust and it always affects innocents as in the case of Anakin because he killed the whole camp. But again: it is unjust exactly in the same way that you drop a bomb over a village where the Nazis hide: obviously in the village not everyone sympathize with them but you will kill the innocent nonetheless. Every single soldier in the world who participate even in one battle did something unjust no matter how good person is he in general. Justice is part of the civilization, after all. On the battlefield the civilization and all its achievements are lost. That's why the war destroyed the Republic and Padme knew it. Anyway, my point is that the difference between good people and corrupt people who did something horrifying in extreme circumstances is simple: the first would be tormented constantly by it. Anakin is tormented: it is obvious. What Padme could do at that moment is to help him not to loose his soul and mind and stay with him what she does. Again, she doesn't approve what he did, she just admit that she knows why it happened. Anakin would have similar situation with Palpatine in the beginning of Ep.3 and what he heard: good, Anakin, very good. Did Padme said that: no, she said only: to be angry is to be human. Anakin completely understood what she said and especially what she avoided to said and he responded exactly to what she didn't say (I know why you did that: is awful while I understand). That's why he said: I'm Jedi I know that I'm better than this. And some say Lucas cannot write dialogue. Yeah, right.

 

when I think of SW and bad dalogue I don't think of AOTC


Bad dialogue is: "Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew"

apparently the FO sent in the Men In Black to erase the memories of the clone wars from the galaxy at large.