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Are PT fans favored over OT fans?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Garrett Atkins, May 25, 2013.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It is my understanding that attacking a creator/someone associated with Star Wars is not acceptable, but criticizing the work is. Based on that, the statement about being a "hack" would be forbidden but "only made the PT for the money" would not be.

    Which is fine as GL is a real person, but I think fictional characters should be fair game outside of designated fan clubs for that character, as should the films themselves.
     
  2. EHT

    EHT Anthology Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Fictional characters are fair game, except for Ahsoka. :p
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and GGrievous like this.
  3. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    I like where this is going.
     
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    LOL, as I thought.
     
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  5. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    I think much hate from the PT lovers is frustration at the fact people seem to hate them simply because they dislike how the direction the movies went in despite them having redeeming qualities. The PT movies have numerous good parts and aren't terrible movies they are just average movies (at least IMO). Many who call them terrible just want to vent their anger at how disappointed they were with the movies because their own expectations were too high which is perfectly understandable. I see it all the time in the JCC movie threads, people hating on decent movies just because they did stuff they thought shouldn't be done (and then insulting the intelligence of anyone who disagrees, so it's hardly limited to just this forum and the mods do even less about it there).
    I think the PT fans get it worse, but I can't comment on whether mods favour them or not.


    Hating on the OT seems to largely be antagonising the PT-bashers, almost all fans love the OT though as a cinema worker myself I notice there are those who don't like anything made before 1985 and think "old" movies with outdated effects are "boring". Each to one's own, though again I say judge movies on their technical merit and not just your pre-formed opinion.
     
  6. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    The hell has become of comms?
     
  7. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Screaming Service / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    This is what it's always been. You are just seeing it through a random observer's eyes this time. :p
     
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  8. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Pffft - er, that is, I see (though am accept corrections) very little "hating on the OT." What the "only the OT is decent" folks are reacting to is the hypocrisy being pointed out if the PT is slammed for "bad dialogue" and so a PT defender points out similar instances in the OT that get a pass.

    In short, the "PT haters" (some) hate what they feel is unfair criticism of their sacred cow although they expect the "PT fans" to shut up and accept their criticism - oops, "the truth," of the PT.

    Eh...so much for not contributing to this thread anymore. Bad me.
     
  9. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005

    Not really... we've gone from "The head admin tried to rape me" to "Somebody told me they don't like TPM and now I'm butthurt. "
     
  10. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    harpuah: not really. I could care less if others dislike or even hate the PT. I hate them telling me I'm mentally deficient, don't understand good storytelling, or have no taste and "everyone" but us deficients know the PT sucks. I hate it when I have to read this in practically every thread, pertinent to the thread or not. I get it. I do. Many fans hate the PT - must they hate the PT fans as well?

    It is funny that the "haters" are now the ones questioning if they're being picked on

    That's all.
     
  11. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    You feel better?
     
  12. Grimby

    Grimby Technical Consultant & Former Head Admin star 7 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2000
    For the noobs among us, I'd just like to clarify the head admin harpuah's referring to was NOT me, and it happened well before I was ever a twinkle in Mod Squad's eye.
     
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  13. Carbon1985

    Carbon1985 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Yes, but I feel the same in OOT threads, where I have to hear SE fans tell me that the OOT is outdated, and Lucas shouldn't waste his time on releasing it because its not his vision, and I need to move on and accept all Lucas's changes. As there is a real disdain among the OOT fans from the SE fans.

    Many fans hate the OOT - must they hate the OOT fans as well?;)
     
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I was on a hiatus from the site when all that happened but I'd say this is an improvement. I'm glad we don't have anything that terrible to complain about anymore.
     
  15. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007

    Come on, you have been around here long enough to know that this is an ongoing issue that stretches across multiple forums.

    You were one of the most vocal people about not wanting to go to the TV forum because it was too negative for your liking, not that long ago.

    And the administration took some very bold steps to solve that situation(not specific to your own concerns exclusively of course), including the permanent banning of users, the banning of specific images and warnings for using specific terminology that was deemed inappropriate.

    Picked on isn't quite the right word, but yes TF.N has been making efforts to tone down the critcism against the product, and its creators - in some forums - for quite a little while now.
     
  16. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    dat drama
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't think anyone is arguing that "PT fans have no taste" should be OK. However, "the PT sucks" certainly should be OK outside a PT Fan Club thread. There has been a threefold issue here: one, some folks wanting the latter statement moderated because it's negative and they "don't want to read negative statements;" two, some folks taking such a statement as a personal offense to PT fans as opposed to a criticism of the PT itself and wanting it moderated as such; and three, so-called "positive people" being allowed to retaliate to "negative statements" with personal attacks against "haters" without edits or bans. I have reported a few such personal attacks against myself and others and nothing happened; however, if a so-called "hater" retaliates to the attack, he/she is edited or banned. The latter issue led to the question posed in the thread title, and I don't think that "How do you expect people to react when you attack something they like?" is a good reason to allow personal attacks, especially if people are expected to not retaliate when they are insulted. (FWIW I think people should report posts rather than retaliating when they are flamed, but I think enforcement of the no-flaming rule should not depend on the poster's viewpoint on elements of the franchise.)
     
    The Hellhammer likes this.
  18. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2013
  19. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I don't see the problem in criticism, I see problem in the arguments presented.
    Saying you dislike something and then proceeding to list in a civilized manner what is it you dislike, why and what you think could've worked better and the in an equally civilized manner listening to the other person who should present his/her argument in the same way - that's quite alright. That's discussion. There was recently a page or two discussion about Anakin's fall in ROTS in one of the Ep7 threads and both sides listed their arguments, said fair enough, smiled and agreed to disagree.

    The problem comes along when someone can't present any decent arguments and starts insulting on a personal basis and just spewing hate and negativity. Hell, we have that with the Sequel Trilogy and the damn thing isn't even written yet.

    And people sometimes tend to overreact. Make a joke or a funny comparison or poke fun at something with no intention of causing an argument - and within minutes you'd be swarmed with people spewing walls of text, attacking, defending and screaming (my all time favorites) "SOURCE?!" and "That's your opinion! Mine is better!"

    So... I'm fine with criticism. As long as it's backed up with something that at least tries to resemble a rational thought.
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That's fine if that's your preference but should the moderators either have to ban negative comments altogether or ban those that are not backed up the way you think they should be? There is always the option of ignoring comments such as "the PT sucks" if you don't like it, or asking why the person thinks so. People have asked why I hate certain aspects of the franchise and I've always been willing to explain why.

    Instead people are retaliating to statements like "the PT sucks" with personal insults and are being told that they can expect to be insulted when they trash something that someone else likes. I thought insulting other posters was supposed to be wrong, period.
     
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  21. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Well...that's what I basically said :p

    Don't insult people, present arguments in a civilized manner, no personal attacks and actually have something decent to say if you disagree.
    I think we're on the same page here ;)
     
  22. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Oh man... lol. Yeah... that wasn't Grimby... sorry, Grimby. :p
     
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  23. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005

    It's not even good drama, though...
     
  24. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2008
    I'm one of the only guys who actively prefers the SE over the OOT (I know, we've argued on this - a LOT!). And while what you said there has some truth, its mostly just me. :p I've seen other SE fans post in those threads, and then immediately leave when an OOT fan says "you must be insane" (actual quote), or "keep your uninformed opinions to yourself" (actual quote). I stay on cause I'm one of those guys with incredibly thick skin.

    Gotta say though, even though tensions were high I very much enjoyed that conversation with you. Much respect, I have towards you. Even though disagree we do.
     
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  25. Juliet316

    Juliet316 3X Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    I know right? The newbies need to comb over the old Comms posts to see how Comms drama is done.