PT Are the Jedi corrupt?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Baks, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. CLee

    CLee Jedi Padawan star 1

    Jun 18, 2017
    Aside from the bad-enough policy of taking their members as children (especially if the parents allow it but mostly because that's what expected of them), it also seems maybe not corrupt but pretty worn-out to not take members as adults out of fear that they would very likely turn bad and destructive (that could easily be associated with or lead to thinking that non-Jedi are inferior to them). It could actually be true that that's the case but if so that suggests that their philosophy and methods are pretty flawed if they will only be accepted by children and would more likely be harmful for adults.
  2. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 4, 2012
    Like when? The only time I can think of the Sith flourishing was during the Old Empire when they were separate from the Republic and during the Dark times, and during the Legacy era in Legends. And during those times the only "hardship" was the oppression of the Sith.
  3. Pacified_llama

    Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan star 2

    Sep 15, 2017
    The main cases that come to mind in Legends is the corruption in the senate, and the subsequent separatist crisis (yes, Damask and Palpatine engineered a great deal of it, but a considerable portion of movement was based on genuine conflict in the Republic), the Mandolorian Wars of the Old Republic, and subsequent, follow-on conflicts. The Second Galactic Civil War is another example.

    These conflicts had myriad aspects, but I think hardship and conflict was the consistent centerpiece which allowed the Sith easy entry.
  4. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001

    As noted, the Jedi either went out recruiting by gaining the permission of the parents who had invited them to their world, or the parents made a trip to the Temple. At no point was it ever confirmed 100% in the old EU, that they stole children. Only in TCW episode, "The Disappeared", were the Jedi accused of this.

    YODA: "Long ago, inducted into the Jedi Order Bardottan children were. However thieves the Jedi were named by the Dagoyan."

    MACE: "The Dagoyan Masters believed the Jedi took the children against their will. We were labeled as kidnappers "

    The exact nature of what happened was never elaborated on.
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  5. Pacified_llama

    Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan star 2

    Sep 15, 2017
    The presentation of the Jedi as "kidnappers" is usually shown to be an antagonistic argument, and not an enlightened one.
    I think it is subjective to an extent, and one could use it as evidence of the Jedi's dogmatism and flawed nature in the Prequel Trilogy.

    It isn't corrupt by their own standards, however - again I'd emphasise that this is an issue of morality rather than 'corruption'. The Jedi weren't really involved in 'corruption' - that was the Senate and the bureaucracy.

    Palpatine, like most Force users, hated corruption as much as the Jedi, of course. His Galactic Empire was an attempt to remove it - he only partially succeeded, if the later scheming of the Moffs etc. is anything to by.
  6. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

    Oct 30, 2015
    Corrupt? No idea. I wouldn't use that word. Too dogmatic, inflexible, somewhat narrow-minded, ... I would say yes.
    Kenneth Morgan likes this.
  7. CLee

    CLee Jedi Padawan star 1

    Jun 18, 2017
    By their own standards it can be seen as a rather ruthless tactic or practice and not being very respectful of the inductees by not letting them make their own informed choice as adults (they are allowed to leave later but it's a difficult process).

    BTW, I think Palpatine's key claim was probably that everyone, including the Jedi, who had power were afraid to lose it and would go far to keep it (which I think the Jedi themselves taught but think it didn't apply to them). Of course the Jedi did have at least some fear of that and try to avoid it but they would consider their power to be a unique sort of power as they use it for others. Not sure how far they would be willing to go to keep it but spying on Palpatine was presumably illegal.
    wobbits likes this.
  8. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 26, 2009
    Corrupt? No.

    Complacent? Yes.
  9. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight star 3

    Jun 27, 2016
    the Jedi Council of the Old Republic in the EU was very corrupt and arrogant
    I think the same thing could happened in the new canon
  10. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

    Dec 13, 2010
    Corrupt, no.

    Too conservative and bound to outdated tradition to properly respond to the current crisis, though? Definitely. And I think that was intentional.
    gezvader28 and Sith Lord 2015 like this.
  11. Pacified_llama

    Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan star 2

    Sep 15, 2017
    Oh goodness, I hope not.
    Part of the appeal of old EU post-ROTJ was the notion that the old way of things gave way to a refreshing "new" Jedi Order. I do not think that the Sequel Trilogy will seek to duplicate the 'Jedi Order' as it has been presented in the PT, however. That would be a very static and limiting approach - the ST seems more concerned with 'doing its own thing', if such a generalization can be made.

    I think there is an argument to be made that the Jedi were arrogant and complacent - but they were fairly consistent with their own beliefs. The problem was that they failed to expand their beliefs, or acknowledge that some of their beliefs might be wrong, outdated or irrelevant to the situation at hand.
  12. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 6, 2007

    Where was it ever said that Palpatine hated corruption? Sith embrace corruption and use it for their own ends.
    wobbits likes this.
  13. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 4

    Nov 10, 2011
    Indeed. "Greed can be a powerful ally." Both for those who seek to redress the wrongs of the corrupt, and for those who wish to exploit them for their own selfish purposes.
    Vialco likes this.
  14. Gerald's Game

    Gerald's Game Jedi Padawan star 2

    Dec 4, 2017
    Yeah, Corrupt
  15. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 19, 2016
    chkdsk J:
    chkdsk E:
    chkdsk D:
    chkdsk I:

    I'll let ya know, but this could take some time.
  16. Captaincrunch1967

    Captaincrunch1967 Jedi Youngling

    Dec 11, 2017
    I don't think that the Jedi were corrupt at all, I think that the Jedi had lost their way, believed that they were infallible and thought that they had the moral authority to bend and break the rules when they had to.

    They lost their mission, which was to basically follow the force and became a political police force for the Republic. If they would have continued to follow the force so to speak and not become generals and commanders in the Republic Military they might have survived long enough to frustrate Palpatine into a mistake.

    The "60's" hippy saying is true "What if they threw a war and nobody came". If the Jedi would have refused to participate in the Clone Wars and left that responsibility the Republic might have fallen, but the Jedi would have not been spread out and separated like they were. Also if the Jedi would have been serving the force, their use of it might not had been compromised, instead in my mind they moved away from the force and the combination of the darkside rising and their lack of connection with the force stripped them of their ability to use it.

    They weren't corrupt or greedy. They were overly protective of their power. They were lost.
    Vialco likes this.
  17. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Apr 25, 2004
    The Jedi didn't really have a choice but to fight in the Clone Wars. Yeah sure, serve the Force...while the galaxy burns down around them? Palpatine deliberately engineered the war, pulling the strings on both sides in a way so that the Jedi needed to fight. If Yoda or Mace have any qualms about fighting, then just allow Grievous to burn down a few dozen planets and drag those reluctant Jedi back into the fight. This is why Sidious was so dangerous, why the Jedi tried so hard to find him in Labyrinth of Evil, and ultimately why Mace tried to kill him in ROTS.
    theraphos likes this.
  18. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 25, 2015
    No, just dogmatic
    even Luke got fed up with the dogma by VIII
  19. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 5, 2001
    Luke has already proven the dogma wrong by bringing back his father from the dark side and proving that family connections are beneficial. You'd think he'd have taken it into account when rebuilding the Jedi Order.
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Jul 7, 2009
    No, Luke proved the "Jedi dogma" right by being compassionate towards Vader. It was compassion that brought Anakin back, not blood ties. More than attachment, family is a commitment and the Jedi have their own commitment already.
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  21. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

    Mar 5, 2006
    "Corrupt" with no further qualification is far too broad a term. Oversimplifying it-No. They were just human. Show one organized religion or belief system or organization that was pure in principle but NOT at some point taken off course by people at some point. Philosophies and Dogma are fine in principle provided they be allowed to grow and change as the world around it changes.

    Episode III showed us the Jedi were fine with executing prisoners or attempting it-twice,and Mace Windu had almost done it previously as well in his youth (Mace Windu Marvel Comic).

    Complacent, susceptible to the same follies as the normies but with the added inability to not adjust or correct for it and having a bit of an aggrandized view of their role in the galaxy-Yes.
  22. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 13, 2011
    They weren't corrupt, but I think the idea that they were flawed makes for a much more interesting "fall and return" six-movie arc.
    Kenneth Morgan likes this.
  23. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 7, 2004
    Not corrupt, just incompetent
    GregMcP likes this.
  24. GregMcP

    GregMcP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jul 7, 2015
    When Dooku defected that should have been a huge red light danger sign.
    Someone is poaching our best talent. Someone is offering something better.

    But it doesn't get the attention is deserves. They have hints of a Sith, but their investigation seems half hearted.

    They've lost energy.
  25. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Feb 18, 2014
    No they were not corrupt they were just misguided