Around the Arena (Qualifying Game 1 Started, Topic 1 Posted)

First of all, good stuff guys. Don't feel restricted to wait until everyone goes to make counterpoints. As soon as someone else goes, you're free to go, too. Don't be afraid to address each other and the points your fellow players are making directly, either.

Love the signature, horsey, I'll give you a bonus point for it.

Now, for some responses ...

thesamman ... you're already starting to flop? you really want to get into the character of an ATH player, eh? Do you really think he walks away from Detroit for 2 million a year? Or, as your second post indicates, do you think he wants the ring? Care to 'man up' and take a firm stance on one of those two?

ASG ... Do you really think the Pistons are better off blowing the team up? Walking away from Billups, and trying to start over? Do you see the East entering Superstar mode, with a team like the Pistons unable to beat the LeBronaliers and the Heat-wade?

whitey ... You really think he maxes out at 8-10? You can't think of one idiot GM in a league full of them that might, just might, overpay a 30 year old point guard?

horsey ... I think if his contract was for seven billion, he wouldn't be opting out. But, at the same time, I'm intrigued by him coming to Cleveland. So save face, and tell me how the Cavs clear up some cap space to get him.

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[b]Scoreboard[/b]
thesamman 0
s65horsey 1
whiteeagle 0
ASG 0

(Remember, I score for arguments at the end of the topic, not during the debate ... that just reflects horsey's bonus point)

 

Cleveland to me is perfectly content w/ Gibson at the point and acquiring a veteran to back him up or grabbing someone in the draft. They arent gonna pay Chauncey.

Detroit was the better team this season, next season? Not so much. They're still ridin those old horses and they're close to breaking down. He'll re-sign. Him, Sheed, Rip and Tayshaun have one more push which sad to say it might be next year. It's close to the end with this team.

To Inty:The whole NBA is full of idiot GMs. But tell me a team, that in need of a point guard mind you, has the money to overpay for Chauncey? Cleveland cant, Milwaukee and Memphis got room but probably not enough to give him a contract he wants. The Lakers have no room and are currently trying to work a trade that includes 4 teams for KG. The one intriguing team i hear is the Magic, they've got room w/ young talent that could be a very interesting team for him to look at.

 

I guess I misread the general point scoring for the game. I thought you were gonna base points earned, off of points made by each each question asked, and not just award one point per person, per round. My mistake.

 

To clarify, you all will be getting more than one point for this round, as you've all made good points already. I'm just not going to put any point totals down until this question is done. Then, I will close this question, score the arguments, and post the next question.

 

Getting rid of Damon Jones (another point guard, same age, not doing as well as Snow though), would help clear a little bit of room. He's not making what they'd have to pay Billups though. I don't know how close Cleveland is to the cap though.

Inty - it said that Billups was set to make $6,819,000 next season with Detroit. So he's squabbling for $181,000??? That seems like chump change for someone making over $6 million dollars.

 

Don't you mean million?

 

No flopping, Inty; my mind was more resolute in the second post

I'm confident Detroit will pay him. They can't afford to have much more offense be taken away, not in a growingly competitive conference. The Cavs will be better next year and keep your eyes on Chicago. Detroit needs weapons, Chauncey is one.

He might get a more lucrative deal, but something tells me the thought of one last serious contention for the title is enough to guarantee one more year in Motown.

BTW, more stats for ya: Billups lead Detroit in steals and assists per game last year, and was second in scoring. Hate to lose that.

 

Yeah, but how much more can Detroit afford to pay him to make him overlook the fact that Detroit is a dying team?

If he is leaving thinking about the future of Detroit vs. the future of one of these teams on the rise, then its not about the money anymore, its about the chance at a ring. I can't see him taking a paycut to play for that chance, but if someone else is willing to pay roughly the same amount as Detroit would, I don't think he stays because 'detroit needs an offensive weapon'.

 

Why is Detroit dying? Because their offense went AWOL against Lebron? I'm telling you, Detroit's sudden inability to shoot was the reason they didn't play the Spurs. They're not the dying team you think.

There is precious little to convince me that Detroit has a lesser chance of a championship than say Orlando or Chicago. Billups is the captain, he's established, he's already said his first aim is Detroit, they need him, he works well in that offense; it just adds up. Bottom line, I think he WANTS Detroit, and I think Detroit NEEDS him.

Remember, he didn't want a trade or another team a year ago, just a contract extension. He just wants more money, and he played well last year and into the postseason. He'll get it, he'll be a Piston, and everyone will be beaming.

 

Because they're getting older? Everyone thats contributed meaningful minutes are just about 30 and over. Billups is 30, backup PG Lindsey Hunter is 36, Rip?s 29, Cwebb 34 and Sheed 32. They gotta lot of miles on those legs.

Watch after this season. If they dont win it all it'll be a youth movement. I guarantee it. They already have showed the wear and tear in the postseason. Sure they swept Orlando but only beat them by an average of 9 points per game. They were eventually able to beat out Chicago, then with a 2-0 lead just choke against Cleveland.

They barely got by Chicago! Are you kidding me? The first two games they played against them were blowouts then Chicago found out how to play them. And played them even the rest of the way. Chicago was in every game after the first two. They beat Detroit by 15 and 16, then didnt get beat by less than 10.

 

How can anyone be totally confident that Detroit will retain Billups? Chances are they will, but he opted out of his contract for a reason, and that's probably because the Pistons wouldn't restructure his contract for more money, don't see the point of opting out, if he's "determined to stay in Detroit".

 

Whiteeagle did a good job summing up why Detroit is on the downfall. This will be even more apparent if Billups gets picked up by another team. As I was stating earlier, Detroit needs Billups to be competitive within their division, but if Billups is after a ring, he needs to look elsewhere. Their playoff performance showed this to him.

 

*horn sounds*

very interesting ...

Samman makes a good point in being the first to point out that Detroit needs Billups (+3), and even though he says Detroit is also the best fit, he's got the fortitude to suggest a location like Minnesota (+3). You kept backing up your arguments in your second post, emphasizing Chauncey is not washed up, pointing to that fresh NBA Finals award (+3), but do you really want to tell this host that Detroit was the better team in that series? Can you name a single game they played better than Cleveland in, among all six? (-1) I do appreciate stats though ... hard to let your team leader in steals and assists walk away, especially when he's your second best scorer (+2) I'm glad you stick to your guns to say Detroit isn't dying, even though you're alone in saying that (+1)

ASG will good poins on the losing of Wallace and Brown (+3) and the bad hiring of Saunders (+2). And i love your last point. Why opt out for basically the same money, if you really want to stay? (+3)

whitey also all kinds of bold, predicting he won't get any more money than he's walking away from (+2). I'd agree with Whitey that for the money, Gibson is a better Cleveland option than Billups (+2), but how are they going to improve in a draft where they have no picks? (-1) I do enjoy the idea of the Magic, but they seem committed to Jameer Nelson at PG right now (+2). A strong finish for whitey, breaking down chokes in their last two playoff series (probably four of five, but they managed to win two of those chokes, if you ask me) (+2)

horsey ... I love the boldness of calling Detroit a team on the decline and telling Chauncey to get out if he wants another ring (+3), also love the the pandering to the host, saying he would work well in Cleveland, and calling them a team on the rise (+2) ... you did have that nasty incident with billion and million, though (-1). You had a fantastic rebound to talk about Detroit dying. (+2)

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[b]SCOREBOARD[/b]
This Round:
samman: 11
ASG: 8
whitey: 7
horsey: 6

Overall:
samman: 11
ASG: 8
whitey: 7
horsey: 7

Next topic coming up soon ...

 

Moving onto Baseball now ...
<img src="http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/photos/uncategorized/buerhle_2.jpg">
Roughly 10 teams have inquired about left-hander Mark Buehrle, according to a report in Newsday.

Buehrle, who can be a free agent after this season, is 4-4 with a 3.39 ERA in 14 starts this season and pitched a no-hitter against the Rangers on April 18.

Published reports and the rumor mills have the top contenders to land Buehrle as Braves, Red Sox, and Mets.

Let's go Around the Arena again with two questions:

Should the White Sox trade Buehrle this early in the season?

and

What team needs to trade for Buehrle the most?

 

Should the White Sox trade Buehrle this early in the season?
First off Inty, the White Sox season has been over for a month. Second of all, Buehrle's 4-4 record should not be reflected on him, because the offense has been virtually non-existent for him. He's got a bad front office overseeing the team, a nut for his manager, and a team that has failed to produce for him this year. If I was Buehrle, I'd be begging the front office for a trade. That being said, he's thrown a no-hitter at my Texas Rangers this year, and he has substantial value. He's gonna be a free agent next year anyway, trade him and get some quality bats, or some pitching prospects for next season, while you still can


What team needs to trade for Buehrle the most
Out of the three supposed top contenders in landing him, I'd go with the Mets, though they haven't been the most dominating offensive team thus far in the season.

Boston is easily the team, out of those three, that would stand to dominate, with another arm like Buehrle. If he does get traded, it's going to be to a team that has a chance to go the distance this year, as the White Sox stand to gain the most in a deal like that. The Red Sox are the most obvious choice, in that perspective.

 

Should the White Sox trade Buehrle this early in the season?

I think they should, provided they can get something for him. The White Sox need to get someone who can light a fire under that team. They are struggling in their division right now and while Buehrle is a spectacular pitcher, he's not what's going to turn the tide for the White Sox. Their performace with the Cubs was embarassing and the organization needs to do something to turn the tide now rather than wait. However, if they can't get anything good for him now then I don't see them trading him. If they can't get some players that will make this team more solid then they're going to hang onto their pitcher that has the ability to win some games.

What team needs to trade for Buehrle the most?

I think the Red Sox would benefit from having the lefty. He can give a team 6-8 quality innings and the ability to win 14-15 games. The Red Sox are doing well this year and I think if they added Buehrle to the roster it would be the icing on the cake for this team.

 

Should the White Sox trade Buehrle this early in the season?

Yes. They arent going to get better, they're currently 13 and a half games out. And to me there's no really way they can close the gap between them and Cleveland for the Wild Card or Detroit for the Division. I think they need more bats than pitching but get as much as you can for this guy. He'll help someone alot. He's pitched in at least 32 games since 01 and pitched over 200 innings every year. He's a horse.

What team needs to trade for Buehrle the most?

The Red Sox could use him but they're already loaded, pitching wise. And they still have Lefty John Lester in AAA polishing his form. They got 3 excellent pitching prospects in Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden and Clay Buccholz. So they could use him but i dont think would give up enough to get him.

But personally I think he'd be a perfect fit for the Braves. Buddy Carlye (1-2, 6.11 ERA) and Kyle Davies (3-7 5.42 ERA) have been awful. They need someone to go along w/ Smoltz and Hudson. I think if they package enough good prospects, maybe Saltalamacchia, they could get him.

 

(as an aside, do you think the 24 hours is too long? too short? does it need changed? should we go to a minimum of two posts per player or 24 hours, whichever is less for this round?)

 

(I'm not sure, Inty. I don't think they get more than 2 chances to speak on the show, but it depends. I think some times its gonig to take us about 24 hrs to post anyways so I'm ok with that time limit. I would agree with the 2 post thing as well, if it comes before 24 hrs.)

 

Ooh, any number of things I could add to this topic

I'd say, for the record, that 24 hours seems just about right for something like this, and its a quick enough game that if a person may not be around for a day, its probably early enough to wait for the next game.

 

You're ALL insane. Fantastic idea, get rid of your team's ERA leader in late June. Have the Yankees taught you nothing? The AL is the offensive league, and starting pitching is everything for a team like Chicago, who, as has been pointed out beforehand, is not exactly pounding the ball. They're dead last in MLB team average.

Mark Buehrle is solid starting pitching. You don't need to entertain any thoughts of getting rid of him. Give me a break, his ERA is way better than 9-5 Dice-K. The White Sox can't hit. Plus, they seem to be making some moves. My sources tell me the Dodgers, who also struggle with the wood, are looking at Jermaine Dye. Leave Buerhle alone.


What team needs to trade for Buehrle the most?

If CHW made the mistake of dealing him, lots of teams will jump. Arizona is barely holding onto first in the best division in baseball. The Dodgers have Penny and Wolf, and Padres have Maddux, Peavy and Young. The D Backs could use another weapon in the fiery NL West. The interleague transition would be awkward but maybe not as hard as you think. Again, the AL hits, the NL pitches. He would fit in.

 

So you're telling me that if the White Sox could trade him for some people who could hit the ball then they shouldn't do that? That seems ridiculous. The White Sox need people who can hit the ball. They can't win on pitching alone (as shown by their current record). I say trade him for some hitters and get the team back on track.

 

Sure, if they could get a package deal with A-Rod and Vlad then by all means do it! Other than that fantasy, what exactly can they get for Buerhle that will justify getting rid of your ERA leader?? I can't think of anything.

Yes, they need hitters. Then go get hitters and keep your best pitcher. As has been pointed out, their season is, barring a Paris Hilton 1800 SAT score miracle, over. Lick your wounds and start formulating deals you can make for better wood next season. And Mark Buerhle will be back for you.

 

OK ... the White Sox are 13 games out of first place in their division, and 12 games out of the Wild Card. samman, are you saying they're not done? If so, should they be buyers in the market and try to get a bat or two?

for the rest of you, do you see any wild and crazy GMs out that with a team that is out of it, but trying to energize their fan base with a trade, a la the Expos and the Bartolo Colon trade?