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Amph ATLA and The Legend of Korra (ATLA live action remake announced for Netflix)

Discussion in 'Community' started by DarthDragon164, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Hm, maybe I should re-watch the episode. I think I'd like it if Lin was made to look dumb. :b

    And speaking of Unalaq, is anyone kind of "meh" that yet another villain is (or involves) a jerk father?
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Unalaq's been completely lacking as a villain anyway, this doesn't even make it worse so much as par for the course. Amon was such a great villain, so was Tarrlokk.
     
  3. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Unaloq is nothing more than Vaatu's pawn. It's Vaatu and Varrick that are the real compelling villains this season.
     
  4. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Well, since Unalaq is now revealed to be the Dragon and not the main villain, I guess it's okay for him to be lacking.
     
  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    ...a big black kite is compelling? :p
     
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  6. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Compared to Unaloq.
     
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  7. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    They can't all be Melon Lord.
     
  8. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    You are wrong. Up until this episode, we only really knew two things about Unalaq: A)he has deep spiritual powers B)he cares about family more than anything

    Think about it. Yes, he took technically took the throne from his brother, but think of how he set it up. There was absolutely no use of force. It wasn't even a sure fire trap. Instead, it was set up like his own private test of worthiness. Had Tonraq respected the spirits, there would've been no backlash, and his career would have in fact been enhanced for protecting the North. For all that people focus on the "outrageousness" of having hired the raiders, it ignores the fact that Unalaq would rather unleash significant widespread suffering than lift a finger against his brother. Why not just have one of the evil spirits kill him? Hire an assassin to murder him in his sleep? There were a million ways to take power that would've put him beyond suspicion, but Unalaq specifically chose the one that protected his brother, even though that had the greatest risk of failure.

    This pattern holds in the present day. Even when Korra is furious with him, he talks about telling her "what [he thinks] she needed to hear." When Tonraq launches an open rebellion against him, he specifically orders the Northern armies to stand down. This is even though everyone knows his forces would win--it's Korra's whole rationale for seeking help from Republic City. When he praises and encourages Korra, you can hear how genuine it sounds. He's a man that dotes on his children and brings them on state trips. He encourages them to hang out with a cousin that they don't have much in common with, just because they're family.

    If you could count on anything in this whole series, it was that Unalaq loved his relatives. Then they just crapped on all that with the most singularly cruel incident ever to air on any Nickelodeon property ever.
     
  9. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Uh, dumping all the blame on his brother is a very weird way to show familial love...
     
  10. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Nay-Sayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Also:

    -Your only son is in desperate need of immediate medical attention!
    - **** him!
     
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  11. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Exactly what about Desna and Eska suggests they were raised in a loving, attentive household?
     
  12. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I realize this completely contradicts my point. That's why I was so furious, and found last week's episode such a deep disappointment. In the space of three seconds, they overthrew basically everything we ever learned about this character. This is the very issue I'm complaining about; there's no way Unalaq would have actually done something like this.

    Cooper, I think you have to remember that they are from an extremely formal, rigid society. One where they occupy the premiere position. They also seem to be relatively spoiled. The combination admittedly makes them come off very stilted at times. But if you look past their attitude to what they actually do, I think there's plenty of evidence for love. Look at how concerned Eska is with helping him. One might attribute this to fear, but I don't think that makes sense. Just the episode prior, Desna yells at him to his face. That sort of acting out wouldn't be possible if Unalaq treated his children the way Ozai treated his. Quite to the contrary, I think it's a sign that they have pretty normal family dynamics, where everyone has moments of frustration, but they are hugely outbalanced by a deeply felt and abiding love. In that light, both the importance of the tasks Unalaq gives them and their eagerness to participate bespeaks genuine affection.

    Mar, again, if he was so callous about his brother, why not just have an evil spirit kill him? It wouldn't be hard. And certainly no one would be able to trace it back to him. Wanting his brother's position is not the same thing as failing to care about him.
     
  13. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    By the same logic, Ozai cared about Iroh.
     
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  14. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    When Iroh foiled Ozai's plan, the latter launched a global manhunt, with no hesitance at all about the use of lethal force. When Tonraq foiled Unalaq's plan, the latter specifically told everyone under his authority to leave him alone. Can you seriously not see how that's different?
     
  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    He was just doing Iroh a favor! Just like he was doing the Earth Kingdom a favor at the end of the series... it was a rather chilly year, you know.

    edit: Wockster, she's talking about taking Iroh's place on the throne.
     
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  16. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Yes, I realize that. But it's a terrible argument. In the first place, because, as I pointed out, Unalaq treats his brother much better than Ozai treated his, so you can't call the two equivalent. In the second, even in the instance she's using, Ozai's request was markedly oblivious to his brother's suffering and lacking in reaction to the loss of his own nephew. Contrary to what Mar's post seems to imply, it's direct evidence of him not caring, because when a family member died, he was literally unfazed by the whole thing.

    Compare this to the Zuko/Azula relationship. She desperately wanted to rule the Fire Nation. We see countless incidents where she's teasing or undermining her brother's authority (either publicly, by out showing him, or privately, by eroding his confidence). Yet, before she goes insane, she does seem to care about him. When he's upset about being possibly excluded from a strategy meeting, she takes a fair amount of time to console and encourage him. There's no evident benefit to doing so outside of the fact that she loves her brother.

    Finally, I mean, just use common sense. Think of families that you know, or are a part of. These sorts of relationships can be very complicated. They don't really lend themselves to simple dichotomies. Sibling rivalries are sometimes to intensely bitter because of the fact that the people involved are otherwise so close. Are you really saying it's impossible to covet something another person has while still liking that person in some way? I'll grant it's neither good nor even healthy. But it happens all the time. Come on.
     
  17. Everton

    Everton Force Ghost star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Unalaq took the throne from his brother. Whatever the justification, that's a bad thing. He's only after one thing - power. Sure he does it with a softer touch than some, but no matter how you try to sugar coat him, or attempt to characterise his methods as honourable - he's a bad man. He did a bad thing, and now he's doing more bad things. If you don't agree with Unalaq, then he'll destroy you without a second thought. Slowly. Craftily. But destroy you. Kindly keeping your brother alive as you rob him of his birthright and make it look like he's the bad guy does not make you honourable. It makes you completely selfish. Cowardly. He doesn't have Tonraq killed. Well doesn't that just make everything okay, then? No. Bad guys have feelings too - that's one of the strengths of the franchise - but it doesn't mean they're not bad guys.
     
  18. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Whereas Unalaq, when his own son is seriously injured and is in urgent need of medical help...

    ... is also completely unfazed by the whole thing. Imagine that.
     
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  19. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    And even Ozai had the excuse of being raised into a family and culture of brutal conquest and subjugation... what's Unalaq's excuse?
     
  20. Everton

    Everton Force Ghost star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2003
    He needed to get rid of them so that they wouldn't be emotionally scarred by his eventual failure to open the portal by chucking a load of water at it. Refusing to help a stricken child, thereby forcing the other to escort him to safety, was the only kind and caring thing to do.
     
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  21. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    . . .

    Guys. That's the scene I'm complaining about. I realize it contradicts everything I've pointed out about his character to date. That's the whole reason I'm angry about it.
     
  22. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Hahaha, that post so perfectly fits your avatar.
     
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  23. Everton

    Everton Force Ghost star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Yes, it contradicts everything you've pointed out about his character. But not his actual character.
     
  24. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I'm sorry you guys can't deal with the fact that Unalaq is probably the most loving, present father we've seen in the entire history of the Avatar franchise. He's certainly in the top two.
     
  25. VanishingReality

    VanishingReality Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2013
    *cough cough* take that Aang.