Banned! Let's discuss, shall we?

In regards to IP bans, all new moderators are given information on the various tools at their disposal, and one thing that is emphasised is that IP bans should not be used as a standard, but as a 'stronger' measure.

I, of course, disagree with that assessment being that obviously I was misinformed as a n00b.

I think we need to communicate that better.

 

Kadue,

Since everything seems to be in working order, perhaps, as Vertical suggested, simply dusting off the old "What to do if you are banned." thread and making sure it is proliferated out to the masses is all that is in order here.

Any confusion that exists at both the user and staff levels would be substantially abated. I would suggest linking the thread (assuming that it is updated) on the Unban Request page.

 

obhave...
Well, I don't know how much more we can market the Informational Threads forum than placing it pretty prominently in the Terms of Service:

"For answers to most questions, please see the Informational Threads forum."

Note, everyone who posts has proven they agreed ith the TOS and therefore agree they are aware of where to find the "answers to most questions."

The TOS is indeed already linked to and included on the banned user page.

We are not and cannot be responsible for problems arising from specific users' failure to follow posted directions. There's some minimum level of expected responsibility on the part of users to follow such posted recommendations.

I don't believe that sending the users to the Informational Threads forum to find their answers is unduly burdensome.

 

I don't think users are capable of rewriting the banned user guide, although if you want me to try I'm sure I could come up with something.

 

Genghis12,

The forum you directed me to has a myriad of closed topics and two open threads that do not discuss bannings. Are you insiunating that users should be combing through locked topics in effort to learn the rules?

Of course, right smack at the top of the Community boards you have the "The JCC Guide to Better Posting". In it you will find a link to IronParrot's guide regarding bannings which is completely different from the guide enclosed in the locked topic you directed me to.

How can you say that it is the user's who have an issue with following instructions when it is clearly the staff that has perpetuated this confusion?

 

But IronParrot's thread dates to the year 2000! I'm sure a lot has changed in the JCF after him. Maybe the main problem is making sure that all informational threads in every forum link to the correct Banned Users' Guide thread.

That aside, I do think that having another form of communication would be advantageous - not necessary but a welcome addition.

Aunecah

 

Almost the entirety of the basic IGN setup remains the same as it was then.

 

obhave...
"The forum you directed me to has a myriad of closed topics and two open threads that do not discuss bannings. Are you insiunating that users should be combing through locked topics in effort to learn the rules?"

Evidently, you have completely misunderstood the concept of the Informational Threads forum.

All topics are locked, because no discussion is required. They are there for your (users') information. This is about the most efficient method available to clearly and unambiguously convery to large numbers of users all of the various additional guidelines, recommendations, expectations, etc. above and beyond the Terms of Service.

If you wish to discuss any of them, do so in Comms. Discussing them in the informational threads forum does nothing more than dilute the power of having a clear focused item.

And furthermore, if you read the "Banned User Guide: Information for Banned Users," you will see the following evolution of that thread:

"This thread is a new version of IronParrot's old "What to do if you are banned" thread. I felt that the old version, while still very informative, was getting a bit dated, so it needed a little upgrade and sprucing up. Thanks go to IronParrot for writing most of what this will be based on. If you'd like to see the original thread, click here...
Nearly all the information users ever need can be found within the Informational Threads forum. What to do when banned, etc. If you're looking for what to do when banned, I would suggest that you follow the "Banned User Guide," and not the "Guide to Better Posting." Regardless the specific problem you cited - an outdated link in a forum-specific thread, is not a general forum-wide problem. It's a problem with the JCC forum-specific link.

But, regardless of which one you use, if nothing else they'll achieve required communication - namely the jc-admin email.

 

But IronParrot's thread dates to the year 2000! I'm sure a lot has changed in the JCF after him. Maybe the main problem is making sure that all informational threads in every forum link to the correct Banned Users' Guide thread.

Yes, but the Moderator who penned the thread did so in March of 2002 and decided to link to IronParrot's ban instructions and decided to place said thread in the header of the heaviest trafficked forum we have. Obviously, they felt it was "the" relevant thread as there is no link or mention of any other.

That said, I agree. If that particular thread is wrong, then it should be replaced, preferably with a thread that isn't locked and buried in an oft-used forum.

 

<eyeroll.gif>

Genghis there is a plethora of information out there, much of it contradictory and all of it according to the amdinistration true.

Therefore I demand the entire Administration be banned for making false, misleading, and in-oc-curate posts.

Furthermore, I suggest the administration stop wasting it's time making convoluted link threads to contradictory sources and work on, I don't know, updating those sources so they aren't woefully out of date.

I'm pretty sure the old banned users guide was made for people using babbages adding machine, how about you update it a teensy bit and remove the parts telling members to...

go right
<-----

 

Would you say we had a plethora of threads, farraday?

 

The biggest problem I see with the current situation (and it's not really a "problem", but more of an area that could use with some touch-up) is that the current Banned User's Guide (I'd forgotten that I actually wrote that one. Heh.) makes mention several times that users who feel they are innocent should not use the unban request, but rather use the email. With the email in the state that it is (only 17 mods on it, fairly inactive, filled with Spam), that doesn't seem like as good a solution as it could be. Clean that up, dust it off, get all the mods back on there, and I don't think you need to rewrite the Banned Users Guide.

Vertical

 

If you're looking for what to do when banned, I would suggest that you follow the "Banned User Guide," and not the "Guide to Better Posting."

Well, now perhaps we should inform the rest of the posters? To say that I should not refer to the Guide which is linked in the header of the YJCC is very strange. Why does it exist and why have you deemed it important enough to place it in such an accesible area if I am to disregard it's contents in favor of another, more complete guide? Can't you see how that is fairly confusing and contradictory?

You must realize that "The Guide to Better Posting" is used far more often than the threads that you linked me to. And further, it is very clear that other Mods (indicated by their inclusion of IP's post as opposed to Vert's) felt that his summary was the definitive one. Even they are confused.

Clean that up, dust it off, get all the mods back on there, and I don't think you need to rewrite the Banned Users Guide.

And make it the only guide. Having two guides that have conflicting information is very confusing.

 

obhave...
You are misunderstanding the purpose of the Informational Threads forum.

It's supposed to be locked, because discussion is not appropriate for the purpose of clearly conveying information.

The way all threads within the Informational Threads forum are used is by being read by someone with that question, not by being responded to.

"To say that I should not refer to the Guide which is linked in the header of the YJCC is very strange."

No, it's not. This forum - Communications - is mainly for general discussion of issuess affecting all boards. And specifically, your main topic of this thread - "banned" - is not specific to YJCC. Since your problem is with outdated thread in a specific board, you should take the issue directly to the JCC Moderators. And since the focus of this thread is something affecting all boards, discussion of the Informational Threads forum is far more appropriate than a JCC-specific thread.

Vert...
"and I don't think you need to rewrite the Banned Users Guide..."

I agree. It is still definitely valid. The one thing I noted was that I believe it was deemed acceptable to PM an Advisory Council member in addition to a Mod after not receiving any response via the unban request system or the jc-admin email. Although, I'm not quite sure how much that goes on. There hasn't been any cases to my knowledge.

 

obhave...
You are misunderstanding the purpose of the Informational Threads forum.

No Genghis, I am not. I understand fully the purpose of those threads. What you are failing to understand is that other Mods wrote a "Guide to Better Posting" and placed it in a very accessible and important spot here at the JC. In doing so, they have made IronParrot's banning Guide far more read and far more important when considered by the users that the one you are referring to. After all, who do we look to for rules regarding posting if we are not to look to the Mods? If their information differs from yours whose responsiblity is it to clarify?

You are stating that it is the user's responsiblity to sort out the conflicting information. I would assert that the information only conflicts becuase you allow it to do so.

Clean it up and the problem dissappears.

 

Maybe Admins should look at the forums that they moderate and make sure that all appropriate links - especially the Banned Users guide - are the correct links (namely, the ones in the Informational thread)? Would that solve the problem? - assuming that the guides in the Informational Threads are actually correct and up-to-date, of course.

Aunecah

 

Genghis, actually you are quite mistaken.

The reason the thread in info are locked is because, quite obivously, they haven't had a response in many mooon.

Since the forum is locke to regular users, the idea those threads were locked to keep discussion from occuring is actually quite funny.

 

Not only that, but the line through the threads gives the impression that they're no longer 'valid'. Having them locked isn't a very 'welcoming' thing, nor does it inspire confidence in the contents of the thread.

Just a psychological point.

Vertical

 

No, it's not. This forum - Communications - is mainly for general discussion of issuess affecting all boards. And specifically, your main topic of this thread - "banned" - is not specific to YJCC. Since your problem is with outdated thread in a specific board, you should take the issue directly to the JCC Moderators. And since the focus of this thread is something affecting all boards, discussion of the Informational Threads forum is far more appropriate than a JCC-specific thread.

My issue is with conflicting information at the Forums in general. I have taken the issue to Comms as I should have. It is neither my job nor my responsiblity to correct the misinformation propogated by the TF.N forums staff. For you to infer so if quite disheartening. I have no such power. The only outlet I have is here. Do you think that If I PM the Mod who wrote that thread they won't simply direct me back here? Obviously, they feel that the information they have supercedes the information contained in the Informational Threads. If that wasn't the case, then they would have linked me there. Right?

Not only that, but the line through the threads gives the impression that they're no longer 'valid'. Having them locked isn't a very 'welcoming' thing, nor does it inspire confidence in the contents of the thread.

Exactly. It's quite the opposite. Especially since there is nothing to indicate that the topics have been locked for a specific pupose. It simply looks like they are locked, period. And it looks that way because that's the way it is.

 

farraday...
"Since the forum is locke to regular users, the idea those threads were locked to keep discussion from occuring is actually quite funny."

Whether you think it's funny or not, that's precisely why the forum is locked - to keep any discussion from occurring.

 

It could serve the same purpose and have a better psychological affect if it wasn't locked but merely kept as read-only.

 

I didn't think there was a way to make threads read-only, only Forums themselves...

 

Precisely. Set the entire forum to read-only, but keep the threads unlocked. And perhaps even updated. Like perhaps linking to this discussion at the bottom of the Banned User Guide thread. Sort of a "Wanna discuss it?" link.

Vertical

 

As long as we're on the topic of psychology - Instead of having a link to the Banned Users guide in the informational threads in the forums, could we just include a summarized (bulletted) version of what to do when you're banned? I don't know about others, but I tend NOT to follow links - preferring to have the information there. You could also include a link to the Informational Threads Board in big, capitalized, red, bold letters in the beginning or the end of the various threads - so that users who want to find more information could delve into them.

Aunecah

 

Correct, sape...

Good Things to do...

1. "Clean up" jc-admin email?
2. Forum moderators need to be aware of outdated information in their forum sticky threads, headers, etc. and revise accordingly.
3. Make sure Banned User Guide is current.
4. Overhaul the way the Informational Threads forum is setup to better serve users having psychological issues against locked topics.