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  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Arena Baseball Is Back!: The Major League Baseball Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Reynar_Tedros, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    How many post season series/years did Pettitte pitch in versus Schilling? I like how you're only singling out a few of Pettitte's series just to highlight his bad ones.

    He won two games against the 2001 Seattle Mariners in the ALCS, with a 2.51 ERA. My memory is a little hazy, but I vaguely remember the M's having a pretty good year then. @tom do you remember?

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pettian01.shtml
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  2. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I don't care. The HOF is not a participation trophy.
     
  3. tom

    tom Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    i like how you only singled out a few series.

    *singles out one series*
     
  4. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    I find Andy Pettitte's case to be pretty similar to Jack Morris's. Mark Buehrle too (though without the postseason success). Very good for a very long time, occasionally great, no major awards. Tim Hudson falls into this category too and I am now questioning my inclusion of him on my list.

    Amazing.
     
    tom likes this.
  5. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    CT with the mic drop.
     
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  6. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    i will see Orel Hershiser and Fernando Valenzuela in before i see Andy Pettitte.
     
  7. LloydChristmas

    LloydChristmas Baseball and Three-Time Jedi Draft Champion star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Apologies for interrupting the somehow still a Yankees-centric topic HOF discussion, but the steroid talk reminded me to follow up on this...



    ...b/c, like, Trevor Bauer was absolutely doctoring balls.

    Back in 2018, if you can even remember life back then, Bauer got in a Twitter spat (surprise) with some Astros where he basically accused them of cheating (lol). Rather than sign-stealing though, he was furthering a convo w/ a Reds pitching coach about the increased spin rates of Verlander, Cole, and Charlie Morton since arriving in Houston-- effectively attributing it to pine tar.

    Several Astros, in a hilarious bit of irony, responded negatively-- perhaps best summed up in Alex Bregman's now-deleted tweet which read:
    "Relax Tyler ... those World Series balls spin a little different.... "​

    Which holy ****, what an epic self-dunk in retrospect.

    Anyway, one of the ways Bauer responded to THAT was to tell reporters the details of research he's done on the topic. In particular...

    I’ve tested all sorts of different stuff in the lab up at Driveline. I’ve tested sunscreen and rosin. I’ve tested pine tar sticks. I’ve tested the liquid pine tar. I made my own non-Newtonian fluids. I sat down with a chemical engineer to understand it. I’ve melted down Firm Grip and Coca-Cola and pine tar together. I’ve tested a lot of stuff. At 70 mph, when we were doing the tests, spin rates jumped between 300–400 rpm while using various different sticky substances. The effect is slightly less pronounced at higher velocities — more game-like velocities — but still between 200–300 rpm increase. So, that’s a lot of the research we’ve done.​

    Now what's interesting is that in Bauer's start right before those comments, he mysteriously saw an increase in his own spin rate. Of...almost exactly 300rpm:



    But according to that tweet & FanGraphs, he only did it for an inning:

    [​IMG]

    In other words, as the subtitle suggests...it certainly looks like Trevor Bauer used some kind of substance to prove, in an actual game, that his theory about pine tar/spin rates is true and his Astros accusations credible.

    When asked about it, he provided "no comment"...but also referred reporters to an Eno Sarris article in The Athletic on the effects of pine tar and his claims against Houston.

    --

    Fast forward to 2020. The Astros are busted for a different kind of cheating...and no players are punished.

    Bauer comes out in Feb with an article in the Players' Tribune, where he doubles down on his claims and gives the Astros an extra shot to the nuts about it all-- b/c of course. He's Trevor Bauer. And they deserved it.

    But he also laments things like "I would guess 70% of the pitchers in the league use some sort of technically illegal substance on the ball" and that "MLB only addressed the sign-stealing problem because it had to."

    This is important to remember.

    --

    Fast forward to the season finally starting. And Trevor Bauer is DEALING. In fact, he's dealing to the degree of...

    [​IMG]

    Well would you look at that.

    A career hovering around 2300-2600 rpm suddenly and regularly topping 2700-2800, or just north of a 300rpm increase.

    And it's clear, if you take it from Trevor Bauer in his own Athletic article, what happened:

    I mean, when I see a guy go from being a good pitcher for one team and spinning the ball at 2,200 rpm, to spinning the ball at 2,600 or 2,700 in Houston, I know exactly what happened.

    I’ve been chasing spin rate since 2012. For eight years I’ve been trying to figure out how to increase the spin on my fastball because I’d identified it way back then as such a massive advantage. I knew that if I could learn to increase it through training and technique, it would be huge. But eight years later, I haven’t found any other way except using foreign substances.

    --

    So Trevor Bauer, by his own kind of roundabout admission, was definitely doctoring balls.

    But what makes it even MORE interesting is how it may have gone beyond just enhancing his own performance.

    Remember, he's pissed about the whole issue of cheating and how the Astros responded to his accusations. He pretty much openly experiments, in game, with showing reporters that he's right. Then the sign-stealing scandal hits, a type of cheating he argues MLB wouldn't have even dealt with until the Astros made them.

    There's a very real possibility, then, that this motivates him to doctor balls-- in which case he either gets caught and it forces the competitive changes he says he wants made, or simply gets away with it to great personal success having seen the sign-stealing "punishment"...EITHER of which further his original accusations about the Astros.

    tl;dr Trevor Bauer may have literally just won the Cy Young to win a debate on Twitter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  8. dp4m

    dp4m Also a Narc star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    So his Cy Young is the ultimate ****-post?
     
  9. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral Baseball Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    I can't remember an athlete I've loved and hated at the same time to the extreme degrees of Trevor Bauer.
     
  10. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    I remember this whole thing. I didn't realize it continued afterwards.

    Amazing.
     
  11. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001


    Thanks Brodie!

    Amazing.
     
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  12. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    He had a really good year. I guess we know why.

    PEDs will really hurt his legacy. His JAWS is actually higher than the average HOF 2B, but he probably won't get in now.
     
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  13. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    well that's his second suspension, so i don't see any HOF
     
  14. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral Baseball Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    I know a team looking to unload an infielder ...
     
  15. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    What exactly was he doing to be tested positive for PEDs about a month and a half after his team's season ended?
     
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  16. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    More money for Bauer! Plus we can plug and play Jeff McNeil there, so not a huge loss.

    Does make BVW's trade look even worse, but we already knew that.
     
  17. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    Oh, it's great news for next year. But man what a terrible, terrible trade.

    Amazing.
     
  18. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    If the Mets throw all their money on someone else not named DJ Lemahieu, I'll be satisfied.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  19. LloydChristmas

    LloydChristmas Baseball and Three-Time Jedi Draft Champion star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Kyrie Irving.
     
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  20. tom

    tom Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    draymond for me, lol.
     
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  21. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Jeremy Shockey for me.
     
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  22. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick Game Host - SfC Part VI BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Kobe for yours truly.
     
  23. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  24. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006


    I've wanted this for years
     
  25. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick Game Host - SfC Part VI BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Perhaps as well: have him emerge with the apple in centerfield, check in hand, before entering the car? :p
     
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