PT Basic Restructuring of the Prequels

...then why come into a thread that's specifically about changing the PT?

 

The thread is basic restructuring. Not outright changing. I posted the thread for that. If you prefer it another way, that's your opinion.

 

RESTRUCTURING
noun
Bringing about a drastic or fundamental internal change

I honestly don't know where else to go from here. I like shopping ideas around with people, but you seem to have mislabeled what you intended this thread to be.

 

Maybe so. My fault for mislabeling. But I think the content of the thread isn't complete changes. But google defines:
re·struc·tur·ing
noun

1. a reorganization of a company with a view to achieving greater efficiency and profit, or to adapt to a changing market.

re·struc·ture
verb
gerund or present participle: restructuring

1. organize differently.

 

Okay... I think the Clone Wars should have started in Episode I. The Clones still wouldn't be introduced until Episode II, but wars are always named retroactively anyway.

I also think the Clone Wars should have been between the Republic and a completely different regime. Having the Clone Wars be a Civil War and the OT being about a Civil War just seems lazy.

 

I would go a very simple root:

The Phantom Menace:

1. Jar Jar and the Gungan race is totally replaced with a cool bounty type hunter and give the comedy stuff to C3PO
2. Anakin is 16yo/18yo not 9yo and is portrayed by someone like Leonardo DiCaprio who could play Anakin through the whole trilogy and has more acting chops than Hayden.
3. Give Darth Maul more lines.
4. Tone down the cartoon type creatures.

Attack of the Clones:

1. Fix the whole romance thing and fix the dialog and with the likes of Leonardo DiCaprio in the Anakin role he could pull it off way better than Hayden.
2. Get a big space battle in there by starting the Clone Wars earlier on.

Revenge of the Sith:

1. Hard to change perfection but I would have a lot more of Darth Vader in the suit and more lines.

 

Ah . . . I don't think so.

 

Why?

 

I didn't find these changes appealing or necessary.

 

The story Lucas set out to tell in the prequels was far too ambitious and wide in scope for just 3 films. That, to me, is what hurts the prequels more than anything. You probably would’ve needed at least 4-5 episodes to effectively cover the 13 years between episodes 1 and 3 in the thorough manner needed. It is a shame that Lucas began the prequels in a pre Harry Potter/mcu film landscape because those may have inspired him to do more films when drafting the prequels.

Episode 1 - Keep the same story.

Added movie - Use Haden as a younger Anakin Skywalker, perhaps 16 instead of 19. Showcase more of the Jedi Temple in a Hogwarts kinda way that fleshes out what the daily life of a padawan living at the temple is like. Also, it wouldn’t hurt give us more Coruscant scenes and maybe have Anikan/Obiwan embark on their first Jedi mission together.

Episode 2 - Keep the same.

Added movie - Full scale Clone Wars movie featuring prime Anikan and prime Obi Wan. More Palpatine manipulations, more Count Dooku, more exotic planets. Create the conflict between Anikan and the Jedi council

Episode 3 - keep the same.

TCW eventually filled in a lot of story gaps (though I still would like to see more pre episode 2 content), but it may not have even happened if Lucas had 2 additional movies to flesh out the prequel era.
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Agreed. Lucas shouldn't have put a ten year gap between TPM and AOTC. Anakin did not need to be 9 years old in the first movie.

 

I think that has the story more present the fear in a child in being separate from their mom.

 

I don't think so. In fact, I completely disagree with this comment. I think the Prequel Trilogy may have been more ambiguous than the Original Trilogy. And I cannot help but wonder if this emphasis on ambiguity bothered a lot of people. But too ambitious and too wide in scope? No, I don't think so.

People keep saying that Anakin should not have been nine years old in "The Phantom Menace". But I have yet to encounter an adequate argument for this opinion. I also feel that the ten year gap between "The Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones" gave Anakin the time he needed to be properly trained in the ways of the Force. Unlike Luke or Rey, he didn't have any fast-track training that made the skills he had acquired difficult for me to believe.

 

I have no issues at all with Anikan being 9 years old in TPM, in fact, I agree with you that it was necessary to build sympathy for him. We needed to see the selfless slave boy who was eager to help people. That is partly what makes Lucas’ “tragic downfall” storyline for Vader work. When rewatching TPM, you can see all of Anikan’s personality traits that will eventually lead him down that dark path.

When I said Lucas was being very ambitious I was referring to him trying to condense 13 years worth of storytelling into 3 films. Again, I don’t fault him for this because the prequels were developed well before the idea of doing 5-8 films in a series became en vogue. I enjoy the prequels as they are, but I feel like they would flow better with 1-2 additional films to flesh out the story.

One thing we missed out on prior to TCW being created was a film that really showed how much of a hero prime Anikan was as a Jedi Knight. We go from the whiney teen version of Anikan in AOTC to pretty much Vader in Rots. I think a movie in between aotc and rots showcasing the clone war at it’s height, while adding in more Palpatine manipulations, and growing unease within the Jedi order would’ve enhanced rots.

So 4 movies would’ve been great, but I would still selfishly want one between tpm and aotc to further flesh out the Jedi Order at the time. That would’ve also enhanced the impact of order 66. Ultimately, I am happy with how things played out with TCW doing a lot of what I suggested, however, if I were teleported to may 2005 without knowledge of TCW coming, I would want more from the prequel era.

 

I think that, somehow, TPM and AOTC could have been written to be essentially one movie*. On the other hand, there is soooooo much in ROTS that happens so fast, and is glossed over that ROTS could have been two movies**.

To put it another way: TPM and AOTC spends a lot of (too much?) time planting seeds. While ROTS is a glorious harvest, it is a lot to digest all in one film with little room to breathe.

*For example, if Anakin was 18ish: He'd be young enough to have issues leaving his mom and dealing with her subsequent death if he thought it was partly his fault (think Peter Parker and Uncle Ben). Also, he'd be old enough to have the beginnings of a romance with Padme. This hypothetical film would not end with Anakin and Padme's marriage, but their "forbidden" romance would be firmly established.

**A Revenge of the SIth that was two parts would feature more Clone Wars and, as the war proceeds, so does Anakin's decent to the darkside. Naturally, I would like just a little bit more Darth Vader too. Somethink akin to what we got in RO.

 

To me, I think that essentially means you have to cram all story and relationship building into one movie and I don't think that's strong storytelling.

 

Well, obviously you'd spread the relationship building throughout the 3 films. For example: Padme and Anakin could still primarily develop their relationship in films 1 and 2. I mean, look at Attack of the Clones: Those kids went from not knowing each other anymore to married in the span of 2 hours. Talk about cramming.

 

The PT story stretches over a longer time than the OT, 13 years vs 3-4 years.
It is more complicated, did Sifo-Dyas really order the clone army, what does the prophecy really say, why do the Sith want revenge?

The OT is a pretty simple good vs evil story and simple =/= poor.
The PT tries to have more shades of gray, is Dooku really a bad guy, do the seps have a point, have the Jedi lost their way?

I have no problem with ambiguity or complicated stories but in my experience, the writer needs to spend more time setting things up and going into the details a bit more than if you do a simple story.
"Here is the Evil Empire and here are the Heroes opposing it." That does not need a lot of set up.

As for Anakin, I can think of a few arguments against him being nine years old.

1) Out of universe, you need to recast a major role.
Imagine if ESB was set 15 years after ANH and you had to recast Luke.

2) In universe, Anakin's presence in the third act becomes problematic as you wonder why they bring a nine year old kid to a warzone?
No reason is given and all Qui-Gon wants is for Anakin to hide and stay safe. So why not leave him on Coruscant or at the Gungan hideout?
But the plot needs him to be there so he is.

3) Character development, going from 9 to 19 would change a person quite a bit but this means, in addition to the new actor, that the audience meets a new Anakin and while some traits are still there, a lot is different. So off-screen character development.

4) Character relationships, the friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin is not established, they meet but that is about it. And in the next film, they, to me, come across as far too antagonistic to each other.
The romance between Padme and Anakin. It can't really start in TPM as we have a nine year and fifteen year old. They do spend more time with each other so a bond is established.
But the romance has to be crammed into AotC.
And having Anakin spent ten years thinking about this one girl he spent a few days with when he was nine, again to me, came across as not all that healthy.

The only reason given why Anakin is this young is to make the separation from his mother a big deal. That it is major reason for his fall.
I think that a 15/16 year old Anakin could still have been bothered by leaving his mother in slavery.
You could also have that he feels more responsible for her and he wants to come back and free her.
And to me there are problems, like why neither the Jedi nor Padme lifts a finger to help Shmi. They just leave her to rot and no explanation is given why they seemingly did not care about her.

As for the time to train, this makes a small issue with Luke. Rey picks up things so fast that it is kind of ridiculous.
Luke trains with Yoda for what, a month or two at most?
He then has I would guess a further 1-2 months between ESB and RotJ to himself.
And that was all the training he required.
Yes it likely is a crash course that Yoda gives him but if normal Jedi training is 10+ years, for Luke to do it in about six months, if that. That is a considerable difference.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

I would have moved TPM up by about 7 years, and have Anakin at 16 instead of 9. The 10 year gap has always bothered me. The characters all aged 10 years, but the underlying events from TPM to AOTC feel as if they're separated by only a short period of time. We get no exposition on Anakin's growth over the ten year gap, so it's not really an issue if it's over three years instead. Also it would add to Anakin's sense of entitlement and arrogance over his immense abilities as they've grown at such a rapid rate, he cannot help but be brash and boastful over what he can do compared to other Jedi, and for what has occurred within him naturally as opposed to others who have to work hard to achieve. As far as the underlying events, the Trade Federation blockade, while not the sole cause of the war, is treated as the first shot fired, so to speak, and would make sense as being the reason the Separatists start to leave the Republic if this happened only three years prior to AOTC. Otherwise it becomes an unresolved issue that just happens to linger for ten years for no reason and with no real resolution, the resulting war aside. And as far as the clones, their growth would have to be accelerated to being 6 times as fast as opposed to twice as fast, but it would also make for a cleaner explanation as to why the Empire stopped using them because they got too old too quick. And it also would make the romance a bit more palatable, and make more sense of Anakin having an infatuation with Padme over a 3 year span instead of the ultra-creepy force boner Anakin has over Padme for 10 years.

 

What about the restructuring of the titles:

The Phantom Menace becomes The Chosen One

Attack of the Clones becomes The Clone Wars Begin

Revenge of the Sith stays the same or becomes The Rise of the Empire or Birth of the Empire

The reason I'm saying this is for 20 years the Tiles of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones were a laughing stock by many , I know George was going for the Flash Gordon type Saturday Morning episode titles but surely that was unnecessary for big time Star Wars movies ?

 

No thanks. I find these arguments that Anakin had to be in his teens when he was found by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in "The Phantom Menace" rather shallow and unnecessary. It almost feels as if people wanted Lucas to allow Anakin to closely follow Luke's age trajectory from the Original Trilogy and nothing else. It also seems to me as if many were uncomfortable at the idea of Anakin starting out as a decent and innocent child. Or that someone like him become a major force of evil. It also feels as if many want the characterization of Anakin to be ham-fisted. Almost simplistic.

 

Anakin was awful as a 9yo - no offense to Jake Lloyd but he was "ham-fisted" with poorly written lines and poorly delivered maybe if the dialog was better written and delivered by a better actor that might have been ok.....the point is almost every fan who had a vision of Anakin Skywalker in EP1 thought he would be a teen or adult who as quoted by Obi-Wan in EP4 was already a great pilot not of pods but space ships flown expertly not by accident.

And "The Phantom Menace" is an awful title is made me cringe and almost sick when I first herd it - I couldn't get my head around it for weeks......

 

Wait, people think the title of EpI is something worth cringing about? From the series with 'The Empire Strikes Back' in it?! Man, I'll never understand some criticisms of the Prequels.

I think SW should embrace those quirky pulpy roots wherever possible, so titles like Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones especially get a thumbs up from me (also helps that they're titles with a myriad of subtle double meanings too).