Batman The Dark Knight Rises (Including Batman Begins & TDK) Discussion Thread

Joker is one of my all-time favorite villans, so I hope an actor is hired who can pull of the role well. Don't get me wrong, I really like Hayden, but I just don't see him as Joker material.

I'm so glad they are completly starting over with this Saga. Good idea to do it again with a clean slate. How many movies are they going to make? What other villans will there be other than Joker and Two Face?

 

I badly hope they avoid the animated series and the more outlandish villains like the plague. The villiany has got to be psychological or it's going to be a slap in the face to the "real" world that Nolan has created.

Joker is all right, if a little bit wonky (I think his makeup will have to be makeup instead of a chemical effect, but I GUESS I could accept it). Two-Face I buy completely.

Penguin would be starting to toe the line but you could do it. You'd probably have to do away with the umbrella gimmick (or was that just from Batman Returns anyhow? I'm pretty sure I remember it from the series), much like al Ghul's storyline was written without any of that Lazarus Pit stuff.

Killer Croc is possible, since he was supposed to be a "freak", but not very exciting.

Poison Ivy? Pushing it almost over the edge but you could still do her toning things down. Immunity to every poison known to man and hemlock lipstick. No plant powers.

Mr. Freeze? Forget about it.

Clayface? No way, would never fit in Nolan's Batman.

Bane? While I'd love to see him done justice, the steroid tube thing would have to go since it's not instantaneous like that.

Maybe the Hatter or the Riddler.

I think Raz, Joker, Two-Face is a good arc.

M. Scott

 

Nolan's Batman wasn't a "real world" Batman anymore then the comic Batman. The same elements are there. It was a "year one" approach but its still a comic movie and any villian from said comic would fit.

In short I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

A "World's Finest" movie was in various stages of development at one point. Peterson was attached to direct but IIRC it fell through when WBs decided on re-vamping the Batman/Superman franchises instead of killing both off with a team up movie.

I guess I understood what he was saying I just totally and completely disagreed with it. I'll give you the fact that they largely did away with the mythical elements of a "Lazarus pit" for Ra's and just went with the "idea is greater then the man" twist but really that could change in the end.

If its one thing that BTAS showed us its that even the "mort-iest" of Batman characters have stories and souls behind those stories. Any character from the Batman mythos would be perfectly at home in "Nolan's Batman".

 

It wasn`t a World's Finest,it was a Batman vs Superman film.The script was greenlighted and Colin Farel was the favorite to be Bruce Wayne.


I`m glad it didn`t get made,because Superman would have won and I`m not a huge fan of him.

 

Joker will work, because the Jokers back story as told in "The Killing Joke" is one of the greatest things ever written in a Batman comic. The Batman sequel needs to have the same approach to the Joker as they had with Bruce Wayne in Begins. Show us everything. Show us why and how and what. I want to see the Killing Joke brought to life. It's the only real back story the Jokers ever had.

 

I think Batman Begins is vastly superior to the previous Batman movies and I'm glad that it was a lot more realistic. That said however I was a little bit disappointed that there were no mentions of the Lazarus pits or Talia. Batman does inhabit a fantasy world so things don't have to be exactly like real life. I see no reason why clayface or poison ivy or killer croc can't appear as they do in the comics as long as the makers are sensible with it. All the villans in the previous movies were grossly over the top and were often painful to watch, I make exception for the Joker as hes ment to be that way. As long as they can avoid that I wouldn't see a problem with using any of Batmans enemies.

 

World's Finest is Batman Superman. Eitherway I had always heard it refered to as World's Finest not Batman Vs Superman.

 

Could you elaborate on his story? I think that would be great if they showed a great background story to the Joker, but it would suck that he would probaly have to die at the end after all that.

Batman 2 should have The Joker, then 3 should have Two-Face. That would be a great trilogy. If the sequels are anything like Batman Begins, these new Batman movies should rock and make us forget about the previous films.

 

I don't want to forget about the first two films. I actually liked them. But we're revising history again aren't we?

 

If I remember correctly, in The Killing Joke, he was just an ordinary guy, a wannabe stand-up comic. But he had a wife with a kid on teh way. To make some cash, he agreed to go on a burglary. It was a gang that always used a new guy as "The Red Hood" or somesuch. Anyway, he fell into chemicals. And the wife died somehow, I think...I don't think Batman was involved...

It's been a while.

 

I ordered The Killing Joke on eBay recently, so I will be able to offer a summary. Not that the Joker history in TKJ is strictly canon in the comics; I believe a lot of it is stuff the Joker is remembering, and that he suggests he may not be correct. I also have a vague idea that Batman is somehow involved in the transition from Red Hood to Joker, but I may be all wrong on that.

After having read The Long Halloween, I'm absolutely convinced that the Two-Face would be amazing for the movie. But I'm also convinced that it has to happen at the end of a movie. It could be the setup for a sequel, but it doesn't even have to be; it would be okay just to have Two-Face disappear (capturing him would be a bit much for one movie as I don't think the attack can happen more than about 30 minutes from the end). I just really love the way The Long Halloween handles this, with his dogged involvement in the case all along only to pay for it in the end. His mental transformation makes total sense in light of the setup. I think it's very possible we could see something like this, too, as the creators of Batman Begins have plainly read The Long Halloween; the opening chapter is even included with the Deluxe Edition DVD.

It's been suggested that Dent's disfigurement might be related to the Joker's trial. I can totally see this, especially if Dent can be involved in the investigation all along with Batman and Gordon. It seems just the Joker's cp of tea, when finally seemingly bested by Batman, to destroy the body and mind of his best friend. An excellent joke.

I'm just sorry the Halle Berry movie has pretty much shot our chances of seeing Catwoman. I really admire Jeph Loeb's depiction of the relationship between Catwoman and Batman, as well as Selina and Bruce, in The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Hush. There's a lot there. She shouldn't be a main plot, but a figure involved and interfering in strange ways, maybe finally reaching some level of trust and understanding with Batman -- or not. It would also add richness and complexity to the Batman character (as opposed to Bruce Wayne), I think. But I figure the odds are almost zero, which is a real shame.

If we're looking at a trilogy, as most people tend to think, then, I'd make #2 about the Joker and end with the creation of Two-Face. #3 would be most superficially about another villain, with Two-Face ultimately being revealed to be playing an important background role and coming out to confront Batman in the end. [Edit: Inspired by Dark Victory, perhaps part of what's going on in the third film involes Two-Face hunting down and trying various people who he believes to be associated with what happened to him. I can see a climax in which he captures and tries Gordon, which I believe has happened in some comic although I have not read it.] Catwoman/Selina would be a sort of subplot over both movies, sometimes helping, sometimes hindering Batman as they are drawn to each other. Somehow tying her origin into the events of the first film would not be a bad idea, and I would definitely go with the Year One idea of having her be an ex-prostitute inspired by seeing Batman in action to go do something.

-Paul

 

Here is Wiki's description of The Killing Joke. Its all about one bad day.

Long Halloween and Dark Victory would be excellent paths to explore.

 

i couldn't see them bringing in Catwoman for this new set of batman movies. i don't think she'd fit in

 

well early on it was said (I don't remember the sorce) that Katie was going to be replaced by a "strong-willed woman".......

 

well i have faith in Christopher Nolan since he did a good job with Begins. so I guess he could pull it off right if they decided to have catwoman in. however, i'd rather just focus on the other characters like Dent/Two-Face and Joker

 

Talia Al-Ghul.

 

I was going to say Talia, too. The Cat Woman movie is too recent for them to use her, methinks.

 

i completely forgot about her. i forgot but how does she figure into the batman story?

 

Out of curiosity, have you read any of the books written by Jeph Loeb (I'm thinking particularly The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Hush)? I'm just curious because I think they tend to show a Catwoman who could really fit in fairly well to the kind of world Begins has set up, and if you've read them and disagree, I would be interested in further discussion there.

I like the idea of Catwoman better than Talia because Catwoman is supposed to be a recurring feature, and having her in a smaller role, never at the center of things but there all along and with some mystery about her, as well as the developing Batman/Catwoman and Bruce/Selina relationships, as a subplot. Using Talia would make R'as too big a fixture of the series, I believe. I see his story as being completely contained and resolved within the first movie. Bringing Talia into things would be stretching it out too far for me. Although I could probably be persuaded to see it otherwise, especially if someone recommended a TPB with a really good Talia story; I've never actually read her, aside from her brief appearance in Hush, and only know about her through other sources.

I also have to admit long-standing prejudice. I do think that the Catwoman story would be a great addition and allow superb exploration of the Batman character based on what I've read recently, but I've been incredibly fond ever since Returns with Michelle Pfeifer. So yeah.

Sadly, I think you're probably right. Which is really annoying, because as I understand it (I didn't see it), the movie had next-to-nothing to do with the actual Catwoman story, besides being bad. If they could just have called it something else, we might have gotten to hang on to this plot for someplace where it could serve a really good purpose.

-Paul

 

I agree that catwoman is a large part of the Batman mythos and would fit quite well into "nolan's" Batman. After all she was prominently featured in Millar's year one and as mentioned above Loeb and Sale's year one-esq Long Halloween and Dark Victory.

I don't know how I'd feel about Talia. I think she could work in the movies but not without Ra's and that opens ups a whole new can of worms. If you are looking for GN's with her there are only really a handful out there. Daughter of the Demon is general considered one of the "great" Batman stories from the Denny O'Neil days. Birth of the Demon gives some of her background but mostly focuses on Ra's. Then there is the out of continuity Son of the Demon which looks at Talia's and Bat's son.

 

one thing i'd like in the sequels is a more defining music theme. the music was good in the begins but nothing really stuck out to me like the elfman theme from the tim burton movie

 

They should just go ahead and cast Tom Cruise as the Joker already. No acting required.