main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Amph Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice

Discussion in 'Community' started by Sith_Sensei__Prime, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Because in a SERIOUS universe, dead should stay dead otherwise why would we worry about the characters if death becomes cheap? This is why many people think superhero comics are silly. And in live action movie, it should be more serious and consistent.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    The Joker is much more believable than this movie's Lex Luthor. His insanity, his entire character, just didn't work. Superman could have flown in the direction of Gotham into a warehouse somewhere, he lacked creative thinking. And I'm saying I don't understand your defense of this film.
     
  3. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    The Joker and Lex are different characters, Lex wasn't supposed to be crazy at all. In BVS we don't even get the motive WHY did he want Superman dead. What benefit could he get from it? He created something like Doomsday for WHAT? It makes little sense, especially on someone like Lex, who always do evil stuff to GAIN something.

    Even Superman IV's Lex had a better motive.
     
  4. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    What makes you think that?
     
  5. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    Believe the news he's watching when he gets back shows the Tumbler chase from Begins?
     
    Darth_Invidious likes this.
  6. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Sinister: Think about the comparison you made. Marvel had a post-credit scene with a guy who clearly explained why he was there. Bateman had a crazy, unexplained dream in the middle of a film. What did it even mean inside the narrative? Bruce Wayne is a prophet who can see the future involving Darkseid? Does he normally decide to murder people on the basis of a bad dream? What is even going on? What's the point? It's an unjustified, non-sensical pile-up of comic book references from someone to inept to integrate them meaningfully into a narrative.
     
    The2ndQuest and gezvader28 like this.
  7. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    More like some Injustice League reference to attract eyeballs.

    It's just stupid to use TDKR, Injustice League or Death of Superman as the materials of the main movie universe.
     
  8. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Never heard that one before.
     
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    These are new arguments that haven't been made before.

    dp4m, no it just mentions got ham
     
    Darth_Invidious likes this.
  10. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Did Returns link with the Nolanverse? I don't remember that. If so that seems to be the only reason why they couldn't have made Man of Steel fit (and even then I'm not convinced it couldn't have been done).


    That's fair, but I still think the momentum generated from them, including any detraction by the reboot, would still have been better than no momentum at all (especially when you do't have someone like Nolan at the helm). Which is why I think they should have linked to the Nolan films in order to better harness the momentum generated thus avoiding any blow-back from the hard reset. And I disagree with the idea that the main reason why Snyder failed was because everyone enjoyed the Nolan films - in fact the main thing that the audience seemed to enjoy was the reboot of Batman. Generally if the reboot is competent and enjoyable, the audience is fairly forgiving even if it isn't as good as previous incarnations.
     
  11. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999

    Man, now you piqued my curiosity enough to dust the cobwebs off that dvd and confirm that.
     
  12. vin

    vin JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 1999
    I can confirm it's there. Surprised a clip isn't on YouTube.
     
  13. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    Huh. Talk about a missed opportunity. I think I would've enjoyed seeing a Routh/Bale World's Finest movie, (as long as neither Singer or Snyder had anything to do with it, that is).
     
  14. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Reeve and Keaton could have been better.



    If I'm not wrong, WB was planning to do a BVS, not WF around that time, so it would mess up for sure.
     
  15. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    I really liked Routh's portrayal of Supes , (altho that costume wasn't right !) and Singer just spent too much time writing a love-letter to the '78 film .

    Cavill's very muscly , but that's never what Superman has been about , well not for me .
     
  16. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Routh was under Reeve's shadow, yeah his performance was good enough. But Cavill was good as well, it wasn't his fault.

    Superman Returns simply was a salute to the first Reeve movie, itself lack of new elements and big fighting scene.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Or he could get Batman to help him, so that he could deal with Lex. Which is creative thinking.

    What's to understand? I like the movie. How hard is that?


    He's supposed to be insane in this film. Just like Two-Face is supposed to be a split personality, but he wasn't in "The Dark Knight". There, he just had anger issues.

    He's doing it for Darkseid. The benefit is that he will get whatever Darkseid will give him.

    To kill all the Metahumans. Lex has the files on Diana, Barry, Arthur and Victor.

    There's a reference to a birthday party massacre, initiated by a clown and a reference to Superman being seen in various cities, including Gotham.

    In 2002, a Superman vs Batman film was in development. It was to be directed by Wolfgang Petersen and written by Andrew Kevin Walker. But Jon Peters didn't want Superman re-introduced in a crossover film, so he hired JJ Abrams to write a script in order to block their attempt.

    He did? No one knew who Thanos was. He was just revealed as being involved with Loki's scheme to invade Earth. His name and motivations were not made clear until "Guardians Of The Galaxy".

    The narrative in the dream is that Bruce is seeing a world overrun by Darkseid and that Superman is serving him. As Clark said, Bruce took Lois from him and this is why he's doing what he's doing. Then Barry appears and tells him that it all ties back to Lois and that he was right about Clark. As to deciding to murder Clark, he's made the choice because of what happened during Zod's invasion, the vision that he had and Clark's failure to stop the bombing of the capitol building. And yes, it is within Batman's character to do that kind of thing.

    Why? It's okay for Marvel films to reference older comics, but not DC films? Or is it that you think it is stupid to reference comics you don't like?
     
  18. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    so - Clark , Bruce and Lex are all manipulated by Darkseid ?

    but Darkseid isn't even in the film is he ? does anyone even mention his name ?

    .
     
  19. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    How many clinically insane people are you aware of among Fortune 500 CEOs? There's a reason for that. Mental illness is incredibly crippling, and not often compatible with any high-functioning job. Unlike in this film, where it's just an excuse to make the character an idiot with no plausible motivations.

    I'm referencing Nick Fury. Even if you never knew about the character, the dialogue explained he had a proposal for Stark based on the fact that A)he was a superhero and B)there were other superheroes. This explained the character's actions.

    How often does this happen? How is this remotely plausible? A person just happens to have a dream that, with 100% accuracy, depicts an alien overlord and his evil empire, neither of which Batman even knows exists? His imagination just coincidentally came up with something it had no basis for but which is also a highly plausible vision of the possible future? Is his mansion centered in Gotham or Delphi?

    He thinks it's stupid to make references to that are simultaneously critical to the plot, unexplained, and non-sensical in the context of the cinematic universe as otherwise presented.
     
    CT-867-5309 and DarthCricketer like this.
  20. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    No gezvader28, Darkseid isn't in the film. His future threat as the JL's big bad is only implied by 1) the Knightmare sequence of a world destroyed and overrun by his Parademon and human lackeys, including Superman and 2) the deleted scene where Lex is communing with what appears to be one of Darkseid's lackeys, Steppenwolf. But yeah, you could say that Lex's mad Doomsday plan might've been suggested by said communion.
     
    gezvader28 likes this.
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Well, there's Donald Trump, for starters.

    Just because Lex is insane, as opposed to being just a sociopath, doesn't mean that he cannot run his company. Not everyone knows that he's insane. Just as not everyone knew that he's absolutely evil in the other versions.

    Right, but a lot of the general audience didn't understand what S.H.E.I.L.D. was specifically, nor about what the Avengers were. But be that as it may, you do admit that the other films didn't reveal who was who in their cameos until the next film in line.

    It's because of the Flash, who is traveling back in time to warn Bruce of what's coming that Bruce has this vision.


    You're confusing yourself with Slowpoke.
     
  22. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    The main problem is that it's not explained well in the movie.
     
  23. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    I have the feeling I'm missing out inane prattle from the usual muted suspects. Ah, ignorance is, truly, bliss.
     
  24. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Sociopath means they don't care about morality or socialization, they just grab whatever they want by any means they could think of. But their motive is very clear, to GAIN something from it. Lex failed to show what does he get from killing Superman? Why creating Doomsday? It does nothing good to himself but would killing him at all.
     
    DarthCricketer likes this.
  25. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    These films weren't meant to be like the Nolan films. And death in comics is not why people think it's silly.

    Lex's motives are clear. He's wants to see the world burn. He doesn't need to gain anything. And we know why he created Doomsday. To kill Superman and the other Metahumans.

    [​IMG]

    That's why he had the file on them that Bruce stole.

    LEX: "Yes, the Metahuman thesis. More likely than not. These exceptional beings live among us. The bases of our myths. Gods among men upon our... our little blue planet here. You don't have to use the silver bullet, but, if you forge one... Well, then... We don't have to depend upon the kindness of monsters."