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Amph Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice

Discussion in 'Community' started by Sith_Sensei__Prime, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Why does he want to see the world burn? That's not a logical motive from a giant business owner.

    Doomsday would not listen to him, it tried to kill him right from the beginning.
     
  2. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    "Seeing the world burn" isn't really a motivation. Nor does it require giant monsters or alien overlords or fighting Superman. What you are claiming doesn't actually explain anything about this story. Probably because it can't be explained.
     
    DarthCricketer likes this.
  3. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    It would have been much better if there is no Doomsday and giving Lex a motive like let Superman's death and the fear against metahumans boost up his weapon business.
     
  4. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Yeah, in no way does Lex want to "see the world burn." He's trying, ultimately, to protect the world from these new godlike forces that have intruded on them.
     
  5. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Which begs the question why he should cooperate with an evil alien overlord thing that he doesn't know from Adam, and may well be worse than Superman and the other meta-humans he's already dealing with.
     
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  6. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Yeah, Lex creating Doomsday basically undercuts what originally seemed to be his entire motivation. The whole "the devil will kill God" thing doesn't make much sense because you're also unleashing the devil without being able to control it either. So, you know, six of one.
     
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  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Did it ever occur to you that Lex is under Darkseid's control and thus isn't entirely in control of his actions? There's a hint of this when he forgets what he's saying when he's making his speech.
     
  8. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Did it occur to you before your first three attempts at explaining his behavior got rightfully shot down as ludicrous?
     
  9. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Merger these posts please. I just had to circle back on this.

    According to you, the plot of this film is supposed to be that a businessman has his mind taken over by an evil alien, who never appears or has his name spoken, whose only reference to existence is completely unexplained symbolism drawn from a comic book and inserted in one character's bad dream, and whose only actual representative is a silent 3-D hologram of another alien that didn't even make the main cut of the film and exists for only 30 seconds in a single deleted scene? That's really what makes sense to you?
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Yes, it does.
     
  11. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Then it means the movie took a terrible job at introducing the villain and motive.
     
  12. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Or maybe you just weren't paying attention.
     
  13. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    At the risk of jumping into this thread and not saying things that haven't been said many times.

    Lex's plan.
    At the start of the film the plan seems to be this;
    Try to smear Supermans reputation both with the people and the politicians.
    And try to get the Kryptonite into the country, at first he tries the legal way.

    Once he gets it, he can make a weapon of it.
    And either the smear works and Superman's name is blighted and then he can kill him with no ill effects and he may even look like he was right all along.
    If the smear somehow does not work, he can still kill him and deal with the consequences later.

    So he is playing back up really. The smear might work on it's own. If the senate decides that Superman is a menace and orders him to leave the planet, he figures that Superman is honorable enough that he might obey. or go into hiding. Either way Superman is gone.
    If that does not work, he can get a weapon from the Kryptonite.

    Then he also tries to get access to the ship and Zod's body in the hope that he can get something out of it.
    I doubt that he knew about Doomsday before he got the ship.

    The Doomsday plot seemed not fully planned. Once Batman stole the Kryptonite, Lex had to change plans a bit.
    He mixed his blood into this and maybe he figured that this would get him some control.
    He had gotten some info from the computer on the ship prior to this so he knew something.
    Maybe he learned that Zod's body could be reanimated. So he did this but added his own blood. That prompted a warning, that he ignored.

    So Lex is having many plans going on at one time.
    The smear campaign, trying to poison Batman against Superman, the Kryptonite and the ship.
    Each could work. If he can get Superman to kill Batman, he shows the world what Superman really is.
    Which is why I think the film should have made it clear that he didn't kill that rebel leader at the start.
    They could have made it clear that Superman just knocked him out. But then Lex's guys killed him and tried to pin on Superman.

    The film has flaws a plenty but I still enjoyed it.
    A big flaw is that they try to do too many things in one movie. It has plot/story enough for two maybe three movies and it feels rushed and Superman's death doesn't have quite the weight to it that it could have had.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
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  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Yes, but as I noted, Lex points out that Superman isn't the only threat on Earth. He's referring to Diana, Barry, Victor and Arthur. Doomsday is not just to take out Clark and/or Bruce, but to take all of them out. Lex didn't know about the protocol to create Doomsday, but he suspected that the Genesis ship could be utilized in handling the Metahuman community.

    It's never going to have that, because it would take a whole film to generate the response that the four Superman books and the JLA tie-in did. And what I mean is a whole film dedicated to people mourning Superman's death. That's why "Funeral For A Friend" is held in higher regard than "Reign Of The Supermen". "Justice League: Hereafter" worked because most of part one was dedicated to Superman's death and the world mourning him, while part two was about what happened to Clark.
     
  15. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Just remember: BvS Executive Producer = the next US Treasury Secretary. Failing upwards, friends... failing upwards...
     
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  16. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    But also the LEGO Movie and Fury Road!
     
  17. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    So, he's Meat Loaf? Two outta three ain't bad? :p
     
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  18. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Really?

    Like, I've seen you take ill-thought out approaches to posting before, but you want to tackle the question of motivation with someone you've been ducking explaining the motivations of a character from that same film series, for years now?

    I mean, ok. Sure.
     
  20. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I saw about one half hour of this film today. It is for idiots.
     
    Rogue1-and-a-half likes this.
  21. vin

    vin JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 1999
    Your should try for 2 half hours.
     
  22. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I'm trying to limit the damage.
     
  23. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Star Wars Television star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
  24. Penguinator

    Penguinator Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    I'm quite amazed this discussion is still ongoing.
     
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    It's like slowpoke doesn't get it. Any of it.