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ST Behind the Scenes of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by TCF-1138 , May 13, 2020.

  1. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    This is the new and (hopefully) improved version of the The Development of the Sequel Trilogy thread.
    We're narrowing down the focus of this thread a bit, as the last one more or less became a catch-all thread for arguing about all things ST (and other off topic, uh, topics).

    In here we can discuss everything surrounding the development and creation of the ST, including behind the scenes material such as the Art of books, Secrets of The Force Awakens, The Director and the Jedi, The Skywalker Legacy, and similar.

    This is also the place to discuss the abandoned Duel of the Fates script, but it's not a thread to argue back and forth about whether it would have been a better movie than TROS or not. It's more about analyzing the differences and similarities between the two than it is about our personal opinions.

    Let's also stay away from rumours and speculation from unverified sources on Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, etc.
    And lastly - please remember the site-wide ban on linking to MakingStarWars.

    Enjoy!


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  2. starfish

    starfish Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    I’ve only briefly flipped through the Art of books at the library, but there’s lots of really cool stuff, really impressive and interesting concepts. I generally like what we got from the ST, but I do feel the design and world building aspects that we ended up with in the film were sub par, which is a shame because they had some really cool concepts in the design work process, which really shows in these art books.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  3. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    I haven't read the Art of books for the ST - I only have the one for Rogue One, and that one is amazing. I'm planning on getting all three of the sequel ones soon though.
     
  4. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I like stunt reels.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2020
  5. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    @vaderito - I added spoiler tags to your post just to make the page quicker to load. [face_peace]
     
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  6. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Good! I wanted and forgot.
     
    TCF-1138 likes this.
  7. Resistance_Man

    Resistance_Man Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Whoever handled the creature design of the ST did an amazing job. I loved how there were less human-like aliens, with weirder designs in Maz's Castle, Canto Bight, and Kijimi. It was also nice to see alot of different alien species in the Resistance, one of my biggest complaints about Episodes IV and V was the total lack of aliens in the Rebellion, seeing a large amount of different species/droids working for the Resistance on Ajan Kloss and D'Qar was a nice touch to show that there's people all across the galaxy supporting the Resistance.
     
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  8. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    The DOTF final script (Sep.2017) has this Sollony Ren in it, female and maul-like and from Dathomir.

    Where did Trevorrow find this idea? Maybe it has its origins in Abrams, or at least in Lucas via Abrams during VII's development.

    I mean, Darth Talon went from corrupting the son to becoming the son, that is Kylo Ren, much like Vader went from betraying and murdering Luke's father to becoming him.

    But Han, as a character, had his origins in Luke, as Lucas explained once. And yet Luke remained Luke.

    So, maybe Talon 'doubled': she a)merged with the Son (Ben), and b) survived.

    There's concept art of Uber (Snoke) corrupting Darth Talon:
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    'Snoke has trained Kylo Ren and at least one other apprentice'. This came from an official Lucasfilm magazine (The Souvenir Guide to the Movie Star Wars: The Last Jedi)

    That was Dec.2017. Abrams was already writing IX. Trevorrow had left just 3 months before. Maybe the idea (Abrams' idea!) was kept and we'll know more about her.
    That 'one other apprentice' is maybe the evil equivalent of Yoda's 'no, there's another'. That 'another' was not Leia until 1981, and during TESB development Lucas had not dropped the ST idea. That another was to be a part of it.

    The leaked DOTF script (Dec.2016) doesn't mention Sollony Ren; the final draft, 9-10 months later, does. What happened? Maybe Howard choosing Maul -Maul-like and from Dathomir- from a list of bad guys. The actor was given a call in July 2017.

    Ben Solo/Kylo Ren, Rey Solana, Sollony Ren. Those names...they all sound like Solo family or Snoke apprentices or Snoke apprentices from the Solo family.

    Snoke 'seduced Ben', according to Leia. Ben was 10-11. But there's this storyboard-ish thing from Jan-feb 2013. It's called 'seduction':
    [​IMG]
    If Snoke's apprentice was older than Ben - and that's how he/she looks, maybe he/she seduced someone, so that someone could be made to fall into a trap later.

    Was Luke projecting his weakness when he said to Rey 'you opened yourself to the dark side for a pair of pretty eyes'?
    He also says to Yoda 'I was weak, unwise', and maybe he was talking about a time before the hut.
    RJ, march 2017:
    [​IMG]
    This is especulation, of course, but there are SWUnderworld-esque currents beneath the ST's surface - as it would be expected, since Disney has been developing TV shows and anthology films together with saga films since the beginning. They seem to be talking to each other in oblique ways.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  9. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018

    It seems Filoni was involved with all the sequel movies and probaly more heavily in TLJ when Rian worked with the story group. Filoni had the same ideas as Rian regarding Luke Skywalker and his comments on Leia being the other Yoda from way before in ESB. I see Filoni being more aprt of the development of them then people really thought. KK greenlight this with Filoni as he's Lucas apprentice.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  10. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    "these aren't characters that go and get married" - Filoni May 21 2014. RIP ReySky.
     
  11. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    NO Luke and mara getting married yaay, also sad Rey Skywalker the last one.
     
  12. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    The first reference to Snoke’s past apprentice(s) is actually older than the souvenir magazine. The visual dictionary for TFA (2015) had the following comment:

    “Kylo Ren is the most gifted apprentice of Supreme Leader Snoke, a mysterious figure steeped in dark side knowledge who commands the First Order from a distance.”

    That indirectly but clearly means that there are or were other apprentices. And it likely comes from an earlier version of the script, since the novelization has a similar line, this one spoken by Snoke to Kylo:

    “I have never had a student with such promise—before you.”

    And this line was likely filmed, since part of the rest of that exchange was heard in the original teaser trailer. After Snoke says that, Kylo humbly credits his strength to Snoke’s teachings. Snoke disagrees:

    “It is far more than that. It is where you are from. The dark side—and the light. The finest sculptor cannot fashion a masterpiece from poor materials. He must have something pure, something strong, something unbreakable, with which to work. I have—you.”

    So that idea was there from early on, and promotional materials consistently described Snoke as a master of the dark side, which logically would mean he had to teach it to someone. I’m not sure who they had in mind for his past apprentices, whether it was the Knights of Ren or possibly even the Sith. Considering that Snoke was supposed to be centuries old, and considering the role of Tor Valum during Episode IX’s development, I would not be surprised if that was what they had in mind for Snoke/Uber. He could have been something similar to the OT’s Yoda, who instead trained Dark Jedi /Sith without necessarily being involved usually in galactic events (until after ROTJ).
     
  13. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ken
    Ken, from the Jedi Prince series.
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    A curiosity, maybe, this Obi-Wan thing.
    But: the jedi library.
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    Ken's homeword prove crucial in the 'Prophets of the Dark Side' book:
    Ben Solo and Ken knew about Snoke Loroan at some point. That seems to be the inference.

    Maybe 'Snoke' came from Ben himself, a nickname for his new 'friend', who maybe had offered Ben some humble,useful insights about flying a ship.

    That would point to little Ben's 'awakening' having to do with flying a ship, like those 'jedi reflexes' of little Anakin in TPM; like ANH Luke and, more to the point, like TFA Rey (the MF flight in Jakku)

    There would be already a hint of 'seduction' in 'better pilot than your dad'.

    Maybe Snoke orchestrated a little adventure for Ben, one that was also a trap.

    According to this theory, I mean. But Ben was sent away when he was 11, and in these books Ken is a boy (12) and he's shocked about being Palpatine's grandson; and he can't tell his father Triclops about that.

    The Palpatine grandchild idea is there, and one has only to change Triclops for Han and Palpatine for Vader, and Ben not being able to tell his father.

    A 10-11 year old boy being corrupted was a new idea. In TPM, Anakin and Palpatine met and that was it. So I guess these novels were used as a reference is some aspects.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  14. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    To me the most fascinating thing about Duel of the Fates is that it still played a role to some extent in the development of TROS. While the stories of course are quite different, there was clearly enough DNA shared between the two to earn Trevorrow and Connolly "Story By" credits.

    The biggest parallel for me is the transference of one's life essence through the Force, either by healing or by absorption. These abilities prove to be essential narrative and thematic keys for both stories. Even the concept art of Kylo on Remnicore from DOTF bears a visual resemblance to Palpatine pulling from Rey and Ben in TROS.

    [​IMG]
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    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  15. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-palpatine-force-drain-power-aftermath-yupe-tashu/
    The influence went in the other direction, probably.

    The healing was not a part of it back then.

    Or, rather, it didn't appear in any material. A possible sith danger (draining) is less of a spoiler than it's possible counterpart (healing)

    One wonder what other things were alredy there when CT was writing his story. Sollony Ren, female and maul-like, and Snoke's 'one other apprentice' were only three months apart (sep-dec 2017), and JJ was already writing IX when the latter appeared (it's official info, until futher notice)

    Maul had been a part of Solo since July. There's also Darth Talon, who became the son (Kylo) but maybe was kept anyway as a separate character. Talon came from Lucas - and Maul and Talon were buddies of some kind in his mind.

    Also, that shrine in Coruscant is canon since the Tarkin novel (there was a rumor of PH writing in his -now- private twitter account about the Shrine being a set up for IX)
     
  16. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    That Filoni quote really doesn't support the direction RJ took Luke.
     
  17. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    It seems so to me, They both describe him more or less the same. And this was before TLJ, so i think both Filoni and Rian was on board with this idea.
     
  18. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    Saying that what Luke went through would leave a scar on him, does not mean the character would refuse to help the next generation and sit on his hands while evil rose again. It could just as easily mean that he would be eager to help in order to ensure no one else would go through the same thing.
     
  19. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Could also mean was was seen in TLJ, we won't know until he talks of it. And Luke goes on a journey like Frodo, instead of going out of middle earth and into heaven more or less, Luke goes an island where the jedi first were.
     
  20. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Yeah, I remember that part of Lord of the Rings when Frodo just up and decided to stay on a secluded island with the ring for 30 years. That part of the story ruled, man.
     
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  21. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Yeah you remember that after ring was destroyed he had this burden of events that he needed to go far away for all time so poor Sam never saw him again, at least Leia saw Luke one last time.
     
  22. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    The difference is Luke had one more task to perform, Frodo didn't.
     
  23. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    You're right, he did do that. But he did that when the war was finished. So he didn't leave his friends and allies and the totality of Middle-earth out to dry. You know, that thing Luke did with the entire galaxy.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    Miles Lodson likes this.
  24. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Well, Filoni said that Luke wasn't the character who would get married and TLJ respected that. Luke wasn't Rey's daddy. They were right that was decided in 2014 that Rey wasn't related to Skywalkers either through Luke or Leia and Han but that she was the new Skywalker (figure).
     
  25. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Well of all entent the war with the empire was over, He knew some darkness was rising in the shadows but he cound't find it and payed it no mind and probaly though him and his jedi could stop it, didn't consider that they turn his own nephew against him.