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ST Behind the Scenes of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by TCF-1138 , May 13, 2020.

  1. PendragonM

    PendragonM Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    You have to wonder whose bright idea it was to launch into this whole mess with barely a through line, squander having the OT3 sitting around ready to go (oh, and let's not forget keeping Billy Dee to movie 3 for some reason - although better that than RJ wanting him to be in DJ's role in TLJ), pin the whole thing on redeeming the villain again and casting Driver (well, that's KK) and sort of smashing Hunger Games into Twilight, just as both of those style of movies was waning in popularity. Oh, and throwing the creator out on his ear and handing the whole thing to JJ and RJ. I mean, that's enough to sink an entire studio and they did it in three movies. Bravo.
     
  2. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    at least fewer people are asking why does obi wan not recognise R2, why is Luke smooching his sister and if Han shot first. ST critics forgot George wrote a lot on the hoof too. I love the whole mess.. true sagas are.. and i truly believe it was made out of love. sagas always have other people adding bits on :)
     
  3. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    The entire ST development reeks of an arrogant creative mindset to me. I remember when that simplistic "rules for making Star Wars" youtube video was making the rounds and Abrams retweeted it. Disappointing. I get the feeling they thought all they needed was some snappy action banter and OT iconography and the audiences and critical praise would be back time and time again.
     
  4. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    to be fair, at least for the first two they did get critical praise
     
  5. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Erm JJ’s twitter does not evidence any such retweet.
     
  6. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    The difference is that those are minor inconsistency complaints about things that don't affect the plot.
     
  7. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Perhaps someone mentioned it to him in an interview then? I thought I recall him public supporting that video, but maybe I'm wrong and am just remembering his general "Jar Jar's bones in the desert" mentality.
     
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  8. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Luke suddenly having a sister and Vader not killing his father but being his father are massive rewrites mid saga
     
  9. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yes, but the Leia reveal doesn't contradict anything established, and works quite well in the film. The Vader reveal works as one of the best twists in film history. See the difference? Rewrites that are big improvements, and expand the story in good ways aren't things people complain about.

    In short, George's "messy" is not the same as the ST's "messy".
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  10. PendragonM

    PendragonM Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    They mistook "George made things up" for a good strategy when Lucas had a whole bunch of plans he was compressing (1) and the story was in his head (2) and he knew here he was going (3). Unlike the new crew who just threw the spaghetti against the wall, was okay that some of it kinda stuck and then let the rest fall to the floor and made penne instead. Then scooped it all into a bowl and threw some cheap canned sauce on top....

    Wait!

     
  11. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Carrie looked much older than she was, and she had limited mobility. She clearly had serious health problems regardless of the fact she’d lost some weight for TFA... highlighted (unfortunately) in that she died only a couple of years later. I’m fairly confident they (Abrams/KK/Johnson) knew she wasn’t well... point being, did that lead them to give Leia less prominence than Han and Luke? I think so.
     
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  12. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    i love the whole messy lot
     
  13. indydefense

    indydefense Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2019
    IMO, Billy Dee was a no-brainer for the casino scene. After Maz waxes poetic about the "master codebreaker," I thought for sure she was talking about Lando. Just imagine: When Finn and Rose land on Canto Bight, we cut to a slow zoom inside the casino until we see Lando standing center at the end of a gambling table. He's surrounded by other players who eagerly watch him. Mid-toss, he looks up at Finn and Rose entering, cocks an eyebrow and says "What have we here?"
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  14. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    That's cool. If you enjoyed the films then the mess doesn't matter.
     
  15. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    flips a credit to the barman...
    .. sorry about the mess.
    and walks out
     
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  16. PendragonM

    PendragonM Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Would have been great - until they set Lando up to sell Finn and Rose out.
     
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  17. indydefense

    indydefense Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2019
    As long as he was just the master codebreaker that would've been fine, because he doesn't have much of a role. But you're right, they probably would've tarnished his character like they tend to do...
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
    PendragonM likes this.
  18. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    That seems to fit Lando's character though, so they could make it make sense if they wanted.
     
    indydefense likes this.
  19. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Trevorrow got turned into the Michael Arndt of IX by being replaced by Abrams. The thing we know even less about is what did Jack Thorne do besides that old fansite article about Leia’s housemaid or whatever.
     
    PendragonM likes this.
  20. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Where do you even come up with this stuff?
    Rian Johnson actively decided against using Lando in that role specifically because it wouldn't make any sense for his character. He thought at one point about getting Lando back into the picture, but felt that it didn't fit to the role he needed. Yet here you are, acting as if he did the opposite. If you want to take a dump on other people, at least make sure that what you are posting has an ounce of truth to it...

    And another one of those...
    If Lucas knew what the story was in his head, he wouldn't have changed course between movies, turning characters into something entirely different than he was before, or overhauled the entire storyline multiple times before getting a movie to principal photography, in which he would once again make drastic changes to the story, including dropping entire character arcs or changing the reason for the main characters fall to the darkside. He made it up as he went along, just like on Indiana Jones, where he claimed that he had three stories even though he only had one.

    You are basically making excuses for one person, while berating the others, even though their behaviour was completely identical.

    Now, instead of making things up about the people involved or being hypocritical about their behaviour, it would have been much more logical to make a different argument entirely:
    the same behaviour doesn't necessarily lead to the same outcome. Lucas using a whirlwind approach every time, doesn't mean that somebody else using the same approach will end up with an equally good result, especially when it isn't one mind but a group of different minds every time. Not that there aren't plenty of detractors when it comes to his work on the prequels as well, some even going so far as putting the earlier success of the franchise on basically everyone but Lucas.
     
    Vympel likes this.
  21. JohnWilliamsSonoma

    JohnWilliamsSonoma Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2003
    George had it all planned out, man!

     
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  22. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Just read that KK quote.

    Looks like CT was trusted and allowed total freedom both as a writer and as a reader (as audience) and then his fan fiction (1st draft) was supervised and rejected. It didn't align.

    In other words, giving total freedom to write and guiding that very writing from the beginning were seen as contradictory. So it was about supervision - guiding what was 'wrong' at a certain point, but only if necessary.

    That KK quote is retrospective. Those early conversations would have helped CT. Why not having them later? Because that would have been like not giving freedom, to interfere. CT was supposed to get it before being supervised. In any case, why was his draft rejected, exactly?

    Maybe RJ had set a precedent. Was RJ a part of those conversations? Maybe he was not; he got 'it'.

    TFA/TLJ means JJ and RJ. Both are mistery writers in a way, from Alias to Knives Out. As writers and as readers.CT is more lighthearted and less interested in those little machines and less likely to see their butterfly effect within a frame that depended on those little machines.

    The ST is more JJ than CT by design - that's why JJ was called back and made TROS in s relatively short time. He knew.

    Just a theory, of course, but RJ was offered more SW films and CT was not. Maybe CT was not a very good choice in this sense, like Arndt wasn't a good choice in another sense - or like those ideas from Lucas, which seem to have been fragmented and re-ordered and repurposed as little machines, but not discarded.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  23. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I remember back in the day that there were strong rumours/spoilers that Anakin turned at the end of AOTC, and had a duel with Mace Windu... So this information would fit in with that. I think the key take away from this info re. the sequencing of Order 66, is that it had existed (conceptually) since at least AOTC... and probably well before that I'd imagine i.e. it wasn't just a product of the development of ROTS.
     
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  24. PendragonM

    PendragonM Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Which is what I said - he was going to put Lando in DJ’s place - what is wrong about what I said? He realized that Lando wouldn’t sell them out? Well, good for RJ. Considering someone was thinking about giving Leia a Death Star like weapon at one point, and what they did to Luke and Han, I’m glad they wised up. Although I think RJ’s fan club might have had more problems defending Lando’s actions than Luke’s but they’ve managed fine so far.

    No, it wasn’t identical and yes, there are many things I hate about ROTJ too. It’s just I can’t stand the ST more and I have a long-standing grudge against JJ. I’ll say that at least George had some idea where he was going. JJ and RJ don’t seem to have had any.

    Which is what I said...
     
  25. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2016
    I admit I’m a little behind but lol

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/dec/06/jack-thorne-dickens-christmas-carol-old-vic-interview (December 6, 2020)

    Another one to throw in my archive later.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021