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ST Behind the Scenes of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by TCF-1138 , May 13, 2020.

  1. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    [​IMG]

    This was Luke's starting point in the ST, his revitalization would have happened in the first movie while he trained Kira/Thea but since Arndt struggled to have him not outshining our new heroine, he decided to shelve it for episode 8 and give Han the role of the mentor. The son's seduction to the darkside by Talon would also have happened over the course of the first movie so we can assume this was not what he intended and since there was no reason why he exiled himself in GL's treatment according to Pablo, they had to find one. So, Rian came up with the idea that he felt guilt for his nephew falling to the darkside (the Rashomon effect was added shortly after TFA came out).


    “The three flashbacks were a late addition — one of the last things that went into the script before we started shooting,” Johnson said. “It’s similar to Rashomon, but the actual story motivation was that I wanted some harder kick to Rey’s turn: ‘You didn’t tell me this.’ I wanted some harder line that was crossed — a more defined thing that we could actually see — between Luke and Kylo.”.“I didn’t want to do a big flashback,” Johnson said. “So one flashback that you repeat three times but that’s just one moment seemed more right. Ultimately, the only one who lies is Luke, in the very first flashback, where he omits the fact that he had a lightsaber in his hand. Kylo is basically telling the truth about his perception of the moment.”

    He probably also wouldn't have him cut himself out of the Force (TFA initially had him using the Force before MH pointed it out to JJ). As for Luke being married, that was well before the ST started. He really didn't like Mara Jade according to Rinzler.

    Mark Hamill told us that Luke was initially intended to die in episode IX after training Leia, but it's unclear which version of the Lucas ST he was talking about.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  2. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    This is NOT the thread to dig up the same. tired. arguments about what you did or didn't like about the ST. The old thread was closed for this exact reason. Stay on topic.
     
    El_Machete12 and EHT like this.
  3. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    As others, and myself, have pointed out, Ordinary People was a probable influence for Ben's backstory -for pre-Kylo, teenage Ben- and his family.

    But, after all, what happened in that family was tied to supernatural forces breaking in; specially, unnatural ones. There was Snoke, and Palpatine and his voices, and 'grandfather', before Ben was sent away.
    There was seduction involved, lies, trickery. This happened before Ordinary People Ben. Ben was sent away when he was 11, according to the VD. When was he approched by those creepy dudes/presences? Maybe he was 9-10, like TPM Anakin.

    Mere especulation, but I think JJ might have had Poltergeist in mind when it came to this kind of dynamic.
    In that film, the mother calls Carol Anne back after she's lost, and maybe JJ took away the guiding medium and moved her to TFA. These two little persons talk a lot about the 'light' and both look like Abrams' english teacher (if Maz 'looks' like her, then both do):[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Ben, instead of Carol Anne, being seduced and tricked. This could have been Ben's room...
    [​IMG]
    ...minus the helmet (that item would have been hidden. Leia never told Ben about Vader, but Ben knew before being sent away, it seems) And the helmet and/or 'grandfather' was alive. Not a SW poster. Much like the TV screen in Poltergeist. And then, of course, the wrong guiding medium appeared at some point:
    [​IMG]
    'Are you lost, sweetheart?' Han and Luke and Leia knew him.

    Again, speculation, but as a source is not very far from JJ's spielbergian interests and sensibility. Certainly, closer than Phantasma, for example, a film he mentioned when talking about Phasma (although the Tall Man in that film is a bit like reverend Henry Kane); also Seven Samurai was mentioned by Kasdan as an influence, and that film is nowhere to be seen in TFA (the KOR, and the backstory related to them were maybe a part of it)

    JJ has mentioned Poltergeist in interviews; Poltergeist means Spielberg, with Lucas not very far way, at least during those years. Originally, Poltergeist was to be a scary CEOTTK -the other 1977 film with aliens in it- sequel ('Watch the Skies', a treatment Spielberg wanted Kasdan to turn into a script; but Kasdan was already working in TESB)

    As I remember, there was a dead grandparent (a grandmother) in Poltergeist II, and yet 'alive', who helped in the end.
     
    Sauron_18 likes this.
  4. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Going back to Uber/Snoke, I’m curious about why the reptilian concept was considered and then dropped. Of course it was always just a rumor, all we unambiguously have is the concept art from Dermot Power. And even that is not clearly identified as that character.

    [​IMG]

    But if that was meant to be Uber/Snoke, I think there’s something to comparing this character concept to Rose/Maz. Both have something that’s very reminiscent of Jim Henson fantasy stories like the Dark Crystal. I’ve read some fan theories that connected early ST theories to that movie. Do you think there was anything to it?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if that angle was dropped because it was too much fantasy even for Star Wars. Yoda and Dagobah were the closest the OT ever got to that, so perhaps that was a careful balance they felt they weren’t achieving.
     
    CampOfSorgan likes this.
  5. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I always took it as that Snoke was actually Snake (one different letter) so reptilian early concept kinda supports that.
     
    Darkstrider likes this.
  6. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    https://boards.theforce.net/threads...cussion-thread.50052902/page-11#post-56560288
    A shared element of Disney's Lion King and Dark Crystal is the blighted land/kingdom theme, blighted because of 'unbalance' or decay of some sort and/or blighted because unbalance of failure of the king himself.
    If Snoke's backstory has to do with this, clearly the Skesis part of him dominated the mystic part and the inner dark crystal (=power) at some point.

    It's, of course, an element in some arthurian stories. Maybe there's a touch of Fisher King or Grail King in Snoke, as there is in Lion King's Scar and his land-corrupting rule (in some versions, the Fisher King is injured in the legs and incapable of standing)

    That interest in nature on Snoke's part is peculiar. But, apparently, Snoke is a UR creature, so that's the nature he once knew - or others wanted him to know.
    Mace Windu has this about nature (ROTS novel):
    There was a heart of Darkness subtext during the ST development (with Luke being originally 'Kurtz up the river'), and it would have to do with this, with the UR as some kind uncharted africa as seen by older pulp (an not so pulp) literature.

    According to JJ, Maz and Yoda crossed paths once. Yoda had been training Jedi for 800 years when he died. Maybe Yoda and 'Snoke' crossed paths too.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    Sauron_18 likes this.
  7. EHT

    EHT ST/Anthology Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    This. I was going to post a reminder like this earlier but got sidetracked. I'm quoting it now to make sure people know that derailing this new and improved version of the thread will not be appreciated.
     
    TCF-1138 likes this.
  8. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
  9. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    'Behind' as a place and as 'past' appearing.

    Han:


    Leia:


    Luke:

    Rey behind Kylo, nothing behind Rey:
    https://youtu.be/X2Xm7gXnGaw?t=17
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Xm7gXnGaw&feature=youtu.be&t=78
    Again, nothing behind Rey:
    [​IMG]
    Except little Rey:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuY50ZUjg6w&feature=youtu.be&t=118
    Yoda:
    https://youtu.be/W2uot-dpl5w?t=5
    Obi-Wan getting older ('Rey?') after Qui-Gon's 'we stand behind you':
    https://youtu.be/RtOxb1YkALY?t=35

    ??
    https://youtu.be/nfsG-ZXyjeA?t=102

    There's also Qi'ra last words to Han: 'I'm right behind you', to be compared with her 'I'm right in front of you':
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdKo4oMCl-s
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
    HevyDevy likes this.
  10. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
  11. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    After I posted Dermot Power's concept art for Uber/Snoke, I found some concept art from Jedi: Fallen Order that I think may have been inspired by that same artwork or other similar concepts. Others have also mentioned the similarity this species had to the character of Tor Valum in Colin Trevorrow's early scripts. I'm not suggesting that Uber was necessarily meant to be a Zeffo. If anything, like other Lucasfilm works, the game built on those existing and unused concepts. But it is cool to potentially see that design fully realized.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Having said that, yes it would have been very cool if the villain had been an ancient, possibly gigantic Force wielder. If you mix the three concepts in your head—Uber/Snoke, Zeffo, Tor Valum—you get a very interesting character there, something closer to the Bendu in terms of its mythical imagery. A master of the dark side who may have contributed to the Sith's teachings and was no looking to help train a new generation of dark-siders. But also someone unaligned to existing orders, devoted only to the dark side itself and helping perpetuate its influence. Again, this is just speculation based on design similarities, but I think it's cool to think about.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  12. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    The Zeffo are an absolutely brilliant alien design. Hope to see them in a film someday.
     
    Vialco and RetropME like this.
  13. Trev Elyt

    Trev Elyt Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Hopefully this is the right thread to discuss this, but apologies if I’m wrong — has anyone explained why they chose to use a puppet for Maz in this film, as opposed to the CGI character they developed for The Force Awakens? The obvious speculation would be that Lupita wasn’t available to film new motion capture material (especially for the limited role she has in the film), so the filmmakers opted to use a puppet, but I thought it was interesting because the interest and response to Maz being a CGI character in The Force Awakens seemed to be generally very positive, from what I can tell.
     
  14. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Wait, Maz was a Puppet? In Rise of Skywalker?
     
    Trev Elyt likes this.
  15. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Interesting that the name Thea was originally conceived for Rey....I read somewhere that it means 'goddess'.
     
  16. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Here's a little nugget:

    In Paul Hirsch's autobiography "A Long Time Ago in a Cutting Room Far, Far Away," he reveals that he got to see a cut of TFA three months before it was released and gave notes. He and Abrams had both worked together previously on Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol. He says his comments were mostly details.

    Later, he went to the world premiere, and he was seated in the same theater at Lucas. Afterward, they managed to chat.

    "Boy, that was something, wasn't it?" Lucas said. "Compared to this, we were playing with model planes on strings."
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  17. Trev Elyt

    Trev Elyt Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Yup, Neal Scanlan talked about it in an interview a few months back! She was apparently a very advanced animatronic puppet, but I have yet to find any explanation as to why they chose to go that route over CGI for this particular film.
     
  18. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    That's crazy. Thanks for the info.
     
    Trev Elyt likes this.
  19. Trev Elyt

    Trev Elyt Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2019
    No problem! I didn’t notice it when I first watched the film because there was so much to take in, but on subsequent viewings, it becomes really obvious, especially when you compare Maz’s look and movements in The Rise of Skywalker to her appearance in The Force Awakens. All things considered, though, I think they did a pretty remarkable job at seamlessly shifting the character’s portrayal from CGI to puppet.
     
  20. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
  21. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    https://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-scripts-of-the-skywalker-saga.50053902/

    Only by looking at the dates here, the planned character of the ST is evident. 'Planned' doesn't necessarily mean pre-planned. There's no need of pre-doing things if you are doing several things at the time and making them 'talk' to each other and reach some 'agreement' before release.

    TPM's final draft is from 1998; ROTS's first draft was written 4 and a half years after that (2003). The time passed between VII's final draft and IX first draft is only 2 and a half years.

    The release dates (mid 1999- mid 2005 vs dec. 2015-dec.2019) reflects that. 6 years vs 4 - and, originally, IX was to be realsed in May.2019. The death of Carrie Fisher delayed things.

    In the ST, final drafts and finished scripts almost overlap with the first drafts and scripts of the following film, and post-production work refines the next film and is refined by it in its turn.

    For example, it was RJ who ultimately changed BB8 for R2D2. Rey had to be with R2D2 at the end of TFA, and not with BB8; and that was no doubt because of Luke (the ANH Leia hologram, crucial in Luke changing his mind about teaching Rey).

    The dice were another element. There's a picture of Han with them in the MF cockpit. They were going to be part of VII; but we didn't see that and then they appeared in TLJ. Looks like Leia left them lying around while in D'Qar, at the end of VII, just as she would do at the end of the film. Again, it was about Luke and Leia's shared memories of Han, and not just about Luke and Han, who was already dead. 'No one's ever really gone' depended on that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  22. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    I seem to remember JJ wanting to make Maz a puppet in TFA too, but they didn't have the time. This time, as her role was smaller, they could create her practically.
    But this is just my speculation.
     
    Trev Elyt likes this.
  23. chained_vulptex

    chained_vulptex Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 12, 2020
    @Master_Rebado whoaaaaaa fantastic image of Rey, thanks for sharing that! I've been hoping to see some real proper shots of the costumes in like, "normal daylight", haha. I'm loving the details in the fabric and seam of that outfit! ^:)^
     
    Master_Rebado likes this.
  24. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    My computer won't open it!:mad:
     
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  25. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
    Iron_lord likes this.