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ST Behind the Scenes of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by TCF-1138 , May 13, 2020.

  1. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Only JJ would replace those genius Oracle shots with...Kylo opening a box.
     
  2. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    While reading The Secret History of Star Wars, I realized that the name of the Sith Master from Trevorrow's early scripts, Tor Valum, is really just a slightly edited version of the (now familiar) name of the unseen Sith Master in the early drafts of Star Wars: Valorum. That really only means that the name and its original purpose would have been reused, changed slightly since the original name had already been used for the Chancellor in Episode I. But it does make me wonder how Tor Valum's addition to the story would've fit in with the history of the Sith.

    That older draft of the script does refer to Tor Valum as a Master of the Sith, but only in the sense that he was a teacher. He would have at some point taught Darth Plagueis, and in this story would teach Kylo Ren a dark power, essentially a kind of Force vampirism, that would enable him to grow in power beyond even his innate potential. There is something appealing about Tor Valum being a sort of dark version of Yoda, as he was in the OT, or even Bendu from Rebels. These are all powerful teachers of the Force who are nonetheless separated from the mainstream of galactic history, isolated hermits in possession of powerful spiritual secrets.

    I also wonder if that was perhaps part of the original idea behind Snoke, that he was a "retired" hermit, highly knowledgable in the Force but long since removed from galactic politics, up until he saw the power vacuum left by the Sith and decided to exploit it for his own benefit.
     
  3. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Moved to a more appropriate thread:
    Serious question again, if the only problem TPTB had with DOTF was it relied too much on Leia which wasn't an option anymore, why did they part ways with Trevorrow and hire someone else to start from scratch, rather than just having him come up with something different himself?
     
  4. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Oh great, you've roped me into anouther ST related thread. Is this one filled with constant arguments as well?:p

    We don't know. Possibly he did'nt feel he could/did'nt want to effectively start from scratch, and/or they all felt it was better if they had to start over to just have a totally fresh start - for the record I know I would'nt want to rework/reright a story I had just poured so much blood and sweat into, especially after the person I had designed the story to center around had just died an unexpected and tragic death.

    I highly doubt it had anything to do with them having an issue with his storyline, becuase if they had one they would never have allowed him to write the script he did, let alone start production of it as a film (just like I doubt that if they had an issue with Johnson they would have gone to him first before Abrams).
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  5. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    That sounds believable. Just hard to rewrite and rework things after Fisher passed away. Trevor may have even tried but the results just weren't working. Creatively he might have already been spent. Also the writing process might not have been bumpy and Lucasfilm didn't want to go through it a second time. Maybe the rumors were true about Trevor not accepting Luke would die in TLJ and kept pushing to having him alive in Ep.9. Really it seems highly unbelievable that a hired director / writer wouldn't get in line with the story points given to him.

    My guess is it ultimately came down to money and who was more bankable. JJ Abrams made The Force Awakens into the biggest grossing film in North American since Titanic. Disney wanted to repeat that success. They wanted to gamble on a proven winner. That seems like the most direct reason. It's also why Trevorrow was hired in the first place. Jurassic World was a much bigger hit than expected. This was before TFA was released. At the time Trevorrow was hired it looked like Jurassic World could make more money than TFA.

    The delay on production after Fisher passed away was reason enough to bump Trevorrow.


    My guess is from Disney's point of view in early 2017 that question was "Why did we part ways with J.J Abrams and hire someone else that's never made a Star Wars movie, rather than just have JJ come up with another movie himself?"


    That sort of character makes sense. A knowledgable evil Force users whose won power or skill seems mostly benign to the Sith. Over the ages Sith would go to him for information. The Sith Lords might even intend to kill the hermit after gaining the knowledge they desire. But the old teacher would always dangle some bread crump of further knowledge and power even he hadn't figured out yet. Greed for that undiscovered power would stop the Sith Lord from killing him.

    All the while the hermit is waiting until the time is right for him to take control.

    Actually Palpatine strings Anakin along that exact way with the promise greater knowledge and the moves the goal line to keep stringing Anakin long.
     
    K2771991 likes this.
  6. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Listen, you're usually the one who ropes me into these messes. I never intended to visit this thread in the first place so I hope it's only a short stay but this conversation is specifically what this thread is for and has nothing to do with Rey so I thought I'd be a good, on-topic user for once. :p
    That sounds to me like it's just your own speculation that Colin was fired because of Leia's death then? I did some quick googling just now and the official reason cited was "creative differences" and I found this quote from an interview with Kathleen Kennedy:
    "Like any development process, it was only in the development that we’re looking at a first draft and realizing that it was perhaps heading in a direction that many of us didn’t feel was really quite where we wanted it to go. And we were on a schedule, as we often are with these movies, and had to make a tough decision as to whether or not we thought we could get there in the time or not. And as I said, Colin was at a disadvantage because he hadn’t been immersed in everything that we all had starting out with Episode VII."
    I'm not following, sorry.
     
  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I think from TPTB's point of view Trevorrow was starting more from scratch on Star Wars as a whole than JJ would be. Both directors would have to come up with a new story. Trevorrow would also be learning as he went how to make a Star Wars movie. But JJ had a proven successful track record delivering Star Wars. He made a lot of money for Disney with The Force Awakens. He had experience working with Disney, Lucasfilm, and the Star Wars cast and crew.

    After two other Star Wars movies had rocky productions TPTB wanted an experienced director they already knew how to work with. They went with a more predictable, proven reliable, and proven bankable choice.
     
  8. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Ah I understand now. I assume the significance of 2017 is that's when CT got replaced. I don't pay attention to this kind of stuff which is why I was asking questions in the first place so that's something I didn't recognize of the top of my head.
     
  9. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    That makes sense.

    2017 seems to be a rough year for Lucasfilm. TPTB had to decide the best way to handle the conclusion of Prince Leia's story without Carrie Fisher. Production on Solo went off the rails. The Last Jedi was released. Trevorrow leaving Ep.9 was before TLJ was released, so fan reaction to the movie had nothing to do with that.

    Another reason JJ may have been brought in is that JJ directed all or most of the Carrie Fisher footage used in The Rise of Skywalker during The Force Awakens.
     
  10. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Well your in luck, becuase we're not going to be here that long, becuase I have two simple, mind blowing, words for you.

    Your right:eek:

    While I was re-checking my information I discovery the logic I used for my position and assumptions regarding Trevarrow's departure was based on incorrect information, and the correct information changes this drasticly. See below.

    I had a response written out to this, but while re-checking the information for it I discovered the logic and reasoning I've been using to base by argument regarding Trevarrow is wrong; principle filming began in august 2018, not january; my prior reasoning is that it would be highly unlikely to upend production less then five months before work on the film was due to start, but doing so almost twelve months prior seems much more reasonable to me.

    So yes, apparently you guys are right and I'm wrong. I need to apologize becuase I've been using an argument built entirely on logic derived from flawed information for quite some time (months), so that's on me. Sorry:(

    It still seems strange to me, however, that if Kennedy allegedly had such a huge issue with Trevarrow she would have allowed him to not only write so many drafts but write off on his finished work - that, at least, smacks very strong of untruth and I highly suspect is more anti KK/anti ST/anti Disney propaganda, becuase Kennedy is far to experienced a producer to do something so insane and there's no reason in general to allow a film writer to go forward with his work if you hate him/it so much. So I do still suspect Trevarrow's depature was'nt a simple as him simply being fired (they stated his depature was a mutual agreement with no hard feelings, if I recall, for starters) becuase they hated him and it's highly likely (IMO) that it's still tied to Fisher's death, as that still seems the most logical culprit for "what changed."

    It stands to reason that the Bendu may not have been the only one of his "kind" - not the same race, nesseserly, but the same type of higher (immortal?) force-enitity whose uniterested in the affairs of lesser beings and posses knowledge/power beyond them.

    I think there's a lot of potential for Valum to be used in future works (and I think he would have been a fair sight more interesting then Clone Palpatine), though I would perfer they went with a less alien design - for some reason in my head I picture him as Charles Dance's ancient vampire character in Dracula Untold - rather then a weird frog thing (even though that fits better with him as being akin to the Bendu).
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
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  11. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Ep9 was originally meant to be a May 2019 release. It was moved back six months to December. That might be where the extra time came from.

    JJ being announced as the new director happened in September 2019. But I think this decision was made months before the official announcement. At the time Carrie Fisher's brother Todd left slip some information that he later walked back which was ultimately true. I think behind the scenes Tervorrow was already out and JJ already working on Ep.9 by late spring of 2017.

    The delayed announcement was done in part so Tervorrow's movie Book of Henry wasn't overshadowed by him not directing Star Wars. The announcement happened after Book of Henry's theatrical run completely over. But when you see Trevorrow interviewed about Star Wars 9 in the summer of 2017, it seems like something is up. Something more than him not being allowed to talk about it.

    Agreed it was more tied to Fisher's death and also JJ being proven / bankable with Star Wars.
     
    K2771991 likes this.
  12. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Here's a video of Trevorrow briefly and broadly discussing his time working on DOTF. He also shares a model for a TIE Marauder, which he says he designed with his son, and notes that another ship designed for the film is at Galaxy's Edge (presumably the TIE echelon).

     
  13. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    I was re-reading parts of the TLJ art book today, and I noticed that Doug Chiang provided a brief synopsis of what the backstory looked like for Episode VII early in development, when Arndt was still part of the project.

    "After Return of the Jedi, when the Empire fell, Luke went through a period of turmoil. He decides to reform the Jedi, Luke being the last. So he creates his own Jedi academy and recruits people. [One of Luke's pupils was the character then known as the "Jedi Killer."] Ultimately he turns against Luke. There's a big fight, and the Jedi Killer is wounded and cast aside. There's this big through-line of the Jedi Killer wanting revenge on Luke. And that's partly why he takes on this persona of Darth Vader: to haunt Luke."

    "At this point in the story, thirty years after the fall of the Empire, Luke has gone to a dark place. He always had this potential dark side within him, being that his father was Darth Vader. So he is really struggling with that. he ended up secluding himself in this Jedi temple on a new planet, and he's just there meditating, reassessing his whole life. Gradually, over the arc of the movie, he rediscovers his vitality and comes back to himself."
    What I find interesting is that it almost sounds like this is describing two different time periods. Perhaps it's just because of how the interview with Chiang was reproduced in the book, but it sounds like the Jedi Killer's fall took place shortly after ROTJ, but Luke's exile did not happen until a few years prior to Episode VII. The story eventually changed so that it would focus less on Luke in this movie. But I also believe from the art pieces in the TFA art book that the Jedi Killer character did not just become Kylo Ren, but was also split in some ways to inform the character of Snoke.

    I wonder if part of the idea was that Snoke was one of the first generation of Jedi that Luke recruited not long after ROTJ. That could be a small generation, as small as just Luke, Leia, and Snoke. Then Snoke gets injured by Luke and flees. Leia decides to quit being a Jedi, Luke takes a while to start another generation, eventually being convinced when he notices Ben's power and potential darkness. But Luke is essentially already somewhat tainted by what happened. In this new context, Snoke himself would not come to take on the persona of Vader, but he would have been training others to do so; first by training the Knights of Ren, and finally by corrupting and training Ben.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  14. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Sounds like the jedi killer wasn’t Han and Leia’s son in the Michael Arndt script. I have a feeling Kira was the daughter of Han and Leia and the Jedi killer was just a random student who turned evil in his script, Abrams then came in and changed everything around.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  15. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    I love the skywalker legacy bts documentary on TROS Disney + E, extras. The ST was made with as much love as any of the other SW films
     
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  16. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 7, 2016
    It was very unorganised love i'd say.
     
  17. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    As was George's love changing the whole story as the OT continued development
     
  18. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2016
    Jedi Killer/Kira aka Kylo/Rey were never related to each other in any scenario. Once they settled on Jedi Killer to be related to Skywalkers, Kira wasn't going to be. There was some guy on another forum, who had some industry ties. He put together the whole timeline of TFA pre-production and these 2 characters were never related.

    Arndt had a bunch of characters who were Han and Leia children but JJ didn't want to focus on that so the script was entirely overhauled.
     
  19. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    As I've come to understand it, GL's and MA's idea was that Leia and Han would have a son and a daughter. The character named Kira was not their daughter, but an unrelated character who came to Luke in the beginning of EpVII after her village had been attacked by bad guys. Presumably, she would've befriended the Skywalker family.
    The son was to join the Jedi Killer in EpVIII.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  20. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
  21. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Something like that, yeah. The son of Han and Leia was always destined to join the dark side. They just moved it all forward and merged the Jedi killer and the son, amongst other things. Merging characters together and moving along plot-lines are actually common practice in the developmental process. It’s all standard stuff, TBH. Whether the full truth comes out one day or not, I've always been a firm believer that the ST, as it is now, contains quite a bit more Lucas than a lot of people think.
     
  22. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I've done some homework. I don't know if Sam and Kira were characters that actors auditioned for in 2013, but they certainly look like 2 actors who were first rumored to have tried for new SW roles:


    Then there was another wave of casting that produced the cast we have now. It seems that changing Sam from a dashing smuggler to a storm trooper Finn also changed the actor type they looked for so instead of Pettyfer-like teen heartthrob twink, they went for stocky and more regular guy type like two finalists Boyega/Plemons

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Departure in casting is pretty drastic so my guess is that Sam and Finn wouldn't have the same function in the movie. Sam guaranteed wouldn't be a comic relief though he would have levity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  23. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Hopefully, we'll get new information in it and not just past interviews.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    In Shops: Nov 11, 2020
    SRP: $29.99
     
  24. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    That magazine looks like another cash grab to me. A nice commemorative piece perhaps, but I wouldn't count on it for any new insights into the making of the ST.

    I doubt we'll ever get anything as comprehensive as the behind the scenes material accumulated for the OT and PT. For the ST, the best we have to go on are the Art Of books, the behind the scenes documentaries and the film commentaries.
     
    2Cleva likes this.
  25. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Had the Oracle been in TROS, it easily would have been one of the most memorable and visually interesting elements in the film. Which is why JJ cut it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
    Lulu Mars likes this.