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The Mandalorian Bo-Katan in The Mandalorian (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by BalanceOfTheForce, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2014
    What were Almec and Satine on about in their introduction then? They have absolutely no idea whether Jango is part of any of the Mandalorians clans throughout the galaxy. He very well could be. The implication there seemed to be the Mandalorian populace are a contained and known quantity to them and Jango is unlikely to be part of it
     
  2. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    At the time the mandalorians were on Mandalore and haden't been purged. And also there were many planets in the mandalore system witch there were more mandalorians like Sabine's clan. Jango might have been apart of mandalore since he was born on one it's planets. But by ATOC he is no longer apart of mandalore.
     
  3. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Clan Wren is part of House Viszla and Ursa Wren is part of Death Watch. I don't know that they were somehow exempt from exile to Concordia. The claim was that ALL their warriors were exiled there, I don't know that Concordia, described as a province with an agricultural settlement can accomodate the population of many Mandalorian planets.
     
  4. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Keep in mind Satine had no idea Pre Viszla was the leader of Death Watch until he outright told her.
    The implication is that those warriors who were too stubborn to even pretend to give up their ways were "exiled" to Concordia, years later it was assumed they died out.
    Meanwhile many of those loyal to the old way falsely renounced violence and began undermining the New Mandalorians from the inside.

    If Pre can do it I don't see why Ursa couldn't too. Krownest had to have some kind of government before Satine was overthrown after all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  5. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Don't understand how Satine managed to be in power at all if the situation on one moon with one settlement is taken as the status quo for many planets.
     
  6. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Well, she had the Republic (Or at least "Powerful Allies") to support her and she seemed reasonably popular with most of the Mandalorian people before Maul and Death Watch put a plan forward to make her look weak. These are the stated reasons Viszla himself explains why they can't just conquer the pacifists and be done with it.
    The fact that Satine's administration can credibly claim the warriors in their society have died out leads me to believe most if not all the Mandalorian colonies and dominions at least make a pretense of following her pacifistic ways.

    I get the feeling if she only had Mandalore itself behind her Palpatine would be all to willing to use that as evidence that she had lost control of the situation in season two. Not to mention Obi-Wan surely wouldn't be shy about telling her that her entire government is a sham that no other Mandalorian world takes seriously. His entire job when going there after all to is make sure the Mandalorian government is maintaining its neutrality and remains stable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  7. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Most of the population of Mandalore were not fighters, they were pacifists. This remained true in Season 7 since there is no one else fighting but Death Watch against the invaders and the handful of Bo-Katan's Mando forces - she needed the Jedi and Republic military to take Mandalore by force. The children of the Watch was how Death Watch had conscripted soldiers and replaced loses during the Clone Wars.


    Maul made it clear that he was the rightful ruler of Mandalore:







    Even Sabine begrudgingly acknowledged Maul was indeed the former true leader of her people and technically she should be still following him. So he was not a particular secret. So to Death Watch style Mando types(plus like clan Saxona, Clan Wren was allied with House Vizsla and would've served Maul) we was leader of Death Watch and ruler of Mandalore:






    Almec's armor could've been either forged for the Siege of Mandalore conflict or it could have been in his family for generations for we know. He may of received some combat training in his youth as part of his role in the New Mandalorian government or Death Watch had gave him some training to out up a fight. But he was certainly no front line combatant on TCW. His earlier appearances, he was also some assassin in a cloak but not really a great fighter. Obviously some additions to his regal armor are present cause of his role as Maul's figurehead on Mandalore as Prime Minister.


    Rau's small band of warriors, the Protectors were wiped out by Saxon before A New Hope. Probably whatever adult your young warrior that could be called upon to fight the empire and Mandalorian loyalists by the end of Rebels, was present onscreen . There wasnt hundreds of thousands of them. The Imperial era Mandalorians likely would been loyal to Saxon since he defended Mandalore against a foreign invasion and the Jedi. While Bo-Katan led an occupation force to neutral Mandalore.

    Death Watch was seen as liberators and heroes per Maul's plan. Satine was overthrown and Pre and Bo-Katan had already executed her cabinet by the time Vizsla betrayed Maul and put in in the cell next to Satine and Almec. Satine was gonna die by Vizsla and Bo-Katan's hands, it was gonna happen. Plus Pre Vizsla wanted revenge on Kenobi and Dooku himself.
     
  8. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I'm not so sure about most Mandalorians not being warriors.
    At the time of TCW most of the younger generation probably hadn't been trained, and the older generation that actually believed in Satine's ideal's likely lapsed in practice, but I assumed that traditionally every Mandalorian was capable of being a warrior. They weren't just warriors, they can still be artists, politicians, teachers, etc. But they are still trained to fight.

    That was how I interpreted it when they chose to have Sabine's father of all people explain the importance of their armor to Ezra, and it was reinforced when they had Almec fight Bo Katan. Maybe his armor was forged for him just for that battle, but considering how important Beskar is stated to be in Rebels, not to mention the fact that it was painted in a specific color scheme and he seemed to hold his own for longer than I would expect against Bo Katan, it just feels like he has some background in combat that goes beyond a rushed training by Death Watch or whatever the New Mandalorians could have taught him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  9. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    It's pretty clear that Death Watch was no small terrorist organization, but an underground movement in Mandalorian Society. It's likely that Death Watch lieutenants held positions of power across numerous Mandalorian influenced systems, much like Pre Vizsla was the governor of Concordia. They're the ones who kept the warrior traditions alive in their respective clans. This is probably why Pre Vizsla required the aid of the Separatists, and later Maul's Shadow Collective, to take Mandalore. Death Watch was stretched thin across the thousand systems Mandalore influenced, not centralized on Concordia. The army on Concordia consisted of Mandalore-born warriors, led by the wielder of the Dark Saber. After being ousted from Concordia by Obi Wan and Satine, Pre Vizsla and his army probably traveled between his hidden allies, one possible place being Krownest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  10. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    And Pre and his crew were still feeble enough logistically to be a non-factor in either the Clone Wars or the politics of Mandalore and its neutral systems until Maul significantly supplemented them with criminal organizations, and even then they had to use a false flag and propaganda operation to seize political control of a then-still-at-peace populace.

    We only really start seeing a huge increase in the numbers of armored warriors once Maul kills Pre and seizes control, with Bo-Katan still leading a force that can afford some attrition in its resistance... and that not un-coincidentally could be argued to use similar logic to what Dooku said would bring Mandalore against The Republic - foreign rule.

    The subtext of The Lawless and the Siege of Mandalore is that the populace is gradually arming and armoring up along relatively simple lines - for Maul or against Maul - while the subtext of the situation in Rebels is of a mere de-facto hegemony by the Imperial-aligned Clan Saxon and Imperial Supercommandos.

    I think some lore could be unveiled/written whereby Satine’s rise to power came through some officially accepted chain of command that the Protectors were attached to and that the majority of clans and civilians pledged themselves to out of genuine weariness with the previous wars and devastation... but that Satine’s pacifism is why she was titled “Duchess” instead of “Manda’lor”, and why only some Protectors stayed with her while others like Fenn Rau went abroad as mercenaries.

    It would be interesting to see if there were any New Mandalorian-turned-Resistance types like Korkie and co. who survived the Purge, and might have a bone to pick with Bo-Katarn trying to reinstate the militarized hierarchy they could rightfully blame for triggering not just terrorist attacks but also the Siege and Purge.

    I feel like, if Sabine is still alive and out there, she and Bo probably are more at loggerheads than allied anymore,
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  11. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Yeah, there was a sense that putting Bo forward as ruler was a bit of a marriage of convenience at the time, but also a sort of... uncomfortable implication that the Rebels narrative considered her "rehabilitated" for convenience's sake. That never set well with me -- I like her as a character, but I don't need her to become a generic "good guy".

    Now we can see that it's not a simple redemption, there's a lot of the old Bo in there, with the stakes raised post-purge. I dig that.

    And very suddenly with this one episode, the canonical mess of differing takes on Mando culture *becomes a narrative and worldbuilding strength*! Different clans and different viewpoints with a common thread but divergent orthodoxies... have the Mandos become the SW metaphor for 21st Century America? Seriously, this gives us some sociopolitical heft in a way that the PT and TCW attempts at political intrigue never did. It's great, and it's not getting in the way of our action-fantasy vibe at all. I can't say enough about how much I love this development! The best part being that Din -- while trying to be a parent of sorts -- has to evaluate and create his own morality and code out of all the options on offer. That's just... so good.
     
  12. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I just thought of the possibility of visiting a live-action Mandalore, and now I’m so excited I can’t sleep.
     
  13. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Well it'll be more like a wasteland as seen in Rebels. The Empire really messed it up.
     
  14. Devizz

    Devizz Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2014
    I'd just like to say Bo-Katan WORKS, they nailed the character, she had a very distinctive silhouette and way of moving in TCW, in mando she is EXACTLY the same! A character that started out in an animated show made its live action debut! Now, this is a first in Star wars (other than Saw Gerrera but honestly they just slapped that name on top of the character that they written for Rogue one cause it fit). I loved what they did with Saw but just saying that with Bo this feels more like like bringing in a character for the sake of the character.
     
  15. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Well ouside their glass buildings like in rebels it was like a wasteland. And it's the jedi and the old republic doings not the empire.
     
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  16. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Sounds cool too.
     
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  17. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2011
    I mean, Bo literally says "don't believe everything you hear" this last episode regarding it being a Wasteland. Maybe they have a hidden Utopia-like secret base?:D
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I'm kind of hoping to see those cube cities made into stylishly decayed and destroyed ruins as ghost towns in the middle of the irradiated desert. Imagine a fight scene taking place on a multi-square mile neo-noir ghost town, like the one in that Blade Runner sequel, but more Picasso-like in architecture.

    ...Heh. If you want to go for a double reference, make it Mandalorian Guernica 2.0.

    .......

    ...And if you want to go for a triple reference, have the Republic supported refugee camp be in the middle of a giant dragon skeleton in the ancient capital of Keldabe...
     
  19. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I mean it’s gonna look like a vast desert.
     
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  20. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    ...another vast desert...

    I think we'll see cubes though. Sandy cubes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  21. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I do hope we see some of the Capital Sundari, it would be weird of them to ignore it.
    Alternatively we could theoretically see the forested half of the planet (That only existed in Legends but hey I'm sure the older Mandalorian Fans would rejoice).
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  22. Master Cado Afu

    Master Cado Afu Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2020
    That was the main reason why I was excited about seeing Bo-Katan, because that brought in the possibility of seeing Mandalore.

    And all of this just from the visual. I always go one about the Pablo Picasso Guernica inspiration...

    [​IMG]
    ...even if we only see it in ruin that's fine by me.

    Of course, doing something like what was seen in The Clone Wars would be a major undertaking in live-action.

    We saw Coruscant in the prequels, could they do something like that for Disney+? Probably, but would it even be worth it? For a Bo-Katan show set on Mandalore it could be, because that way they can continue to use whatever they build that's not done by StageCraft (the Volume); the physical sets. Just for The Mandalorian though it probably wouldn't be worth it. So more reason for a Bo-Katan show.
     
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  23. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Considering what they’ve managed to do thus far... I think it’d be workable.

    And what I’m picturing with that plaza is melted metal, debris, and long, sinister shadows in a place that looks too spacious to be a junkyard but too dead and dirty to be Sundari as we once knew it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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  24. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    IIRC, Boba always had a history of being a Jedi-killer as early as the early 80s. Prior to any PT stories. The depiction of the Legends stories of Mandalore v Jedi is a nice addition.

    Maybe Din will be the one who reconciled the Jedi v Mandalore animosity.

    This is the way?
     
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  25. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Din finally finds a Jedi and it's a Picasso looking alien that looks EXACTLY like the murals depicted in Sundari.