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Indy 5 Bob Iger's comment and how Disney can redeem themselves. Maybe.

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by supamichi, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. supamichi

    supamichi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2019
    This post is mainly so I can vent my frustration as a "Legends" SW fan, but in regards to this article:
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/bob-iger-reiterates-his-sentiment-that-less-star-wars-i-1839589159

    I just had to laugh out loud while swinging my fist in the air. According to Mr. Iger, SW is $hi77ing the bed as of late due to "oversaturation of SW movies". Is it just me or is this argument kind of like saying, "I've pooped in my car one too many times, so that must be why the car smells." When, in reality, there's a better place to poop--the toilet. That's what it was designed for. If the analogy is lost on readers here, it is just this: SW was designed around and bolstered by the ample (mostly excellent) material in the EU. For Disney to be so audacious as to claim that the "problem lies in making too many movies", the point is completely missed: it's the horrible writing that makes Disney SW movies horrible. If they just "used the toilet", that is, the excellent material that already exists, hired the same writers who killed it with their novels/comics, there would be no problem in my eyes. In fact, it's truly sad that Disney doesn't use this material and couple it with their insane budget to make outstanding films. But no, the Lucasfilm Story Group (read about this stellar lot here: )
    has to abolish nearly everything beloved and holy to SW fans the world 'round to write smarmy, derivative slag. Don't get me wrong, I liked Rogue One as much as the average SW skeptic (and 'Solo' wasn't actually that bad), but if you consider why this was, it was no mystery or outlier: both RO and Solo expanded on original material not written by Disney. Huh, figure that.
    But I digress. If you think I'm wrong here and Bob is on to something, consider for a moment this (unrealistic) scenario: Imagine that Disney was to apologize for trying to take a multi-billion dollar franchise into their hands and pervert it, and retconned as much EU (Legends) material as they could to bandage the wounds they made, and instead deferred to as much (successful) EU material as they could going forward. To do this, they could hire the head writer/publishers as the directors of each project (if they wanted to, of course) to oversee that the adaptations of their work. So, imagine in a handful of years you saw any or all of the following emerge under Disney's "Star Wars Partner Groups" portfolio:
    -The Star Wars Legends saga, featuring the rise and fall of Darth Krayt. Could retcon in Cade Skywalker or rewrite a new protagonist to fill in the gap. Would probably have to be a trilogy since the series is so extensive.
    -The Thrawn Trilogy. This is likely already happening, so this could be a moot point. Still, Tim Zahn's work needs to be acknowledged. I think they could still save Mara Jade and work in Talon Karrde if they were creative enough. Obviously, someone else would have to kill her but whatevs. No one really liked the children of the Jedi anyhow. (Though I wouldn't cry if Kylo were to go. After all, his name sounds like he should be in a boy band. No surprise he acts that way in the films then).
    -KoTOR and TOR. Once again, probably gonna happen, but let's pray on a kyber crystal that Disney doesn't dig their dirty claws into this one and rewrite anything. Perfect straight adaptation from the games would be just fine. I know I'm not alone here. Heil Revan!
    -The rise and fall of Exar Kun. Could begin in the OR and fast-forward to Yavin during Luke's encounter on Yavin at some point. This could be totally fun and would help retcon in the Praxaeum.

    So, imagine those three HUGE projects came out over the course of 2 years, so probs like 10 movies or more, and they all kicked @$$ (cuz Did'ney didn't do it). See my point? You would be enthralled! Disney would be redeemed. And it would be sooooo ironic because they only had to sign off on it.

    Other things I would personally love to see in the same vein sans Lucasfilm Story Group:

    -The story of the rise to power of Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd etc. Could begin with the death of Marka Ragnos. Could even do a side short for the Lost Tribe of the Sith. ( I haven't read that one but I hear it's good). Ample opportunity here for crossovers and cool cameos from other popular characters.
    -A series of shorts based on the "Tales of..." books. I loved the Tales From the Cantina and Jabba's Palace books. They added so much more depth to those beloved scenes and would make excellent film adaptations. Even if they were high-quality CG, I wouldn't mind. I'm thinking in the same style as Love, Death and Robots. There were also some excellent side stories in the Tales from the Empire book.
    -A cat and mouse series featuring Boba Fett and Jodo Kast. This is actually a really cool story and covers quite a large spread of the beloved bounty hunter's career, pre and post Sarlaac. It would also redeem Fett's survival which Disney sort of hand-waved away in Aftermath.
    -Shadows of the Empire. Now I know this is a contentious one but I really liked the book and the game back in the day. Yes, Rendar is really just another Solo but what's wrong with that? Solo was a boss and two jerks in one sitting, well...isn't that like a two oz shot? And Xizor is a really unique character and is pivotal in Vader's story as Palpatine's apprentice, as well as highlighting Luke's growth between ESB and RTJ. Not to mention how awesome (and hot) Guri was. You can't go wrong with a Star Wars sex bot.
    -A live-action Darth Maul survival story. I understand Rebels sort of did this already, but I'm thinking something more gritty and dark, highlighting Maul's descent into madness and the cultivation of his hatred for Obi Wan. Imagine it started where Phantom left off, with Obi Wan's light sabre striking his midsection, and the camera follows him (or his two halves, really) as they fall down the conduit. Surviving in the garbage compartment, undergoing transition to cybernetic legs, all of that. Directed by Christopher Nolan, maybe? Maul is a cool enough character to dedicate a movie to, and could be a segmented movie spanning the years leading up to his fatal battle with Obi Wan back on Tatooine. Enough happened in between those two times that a movie (or more) could easily be made. McGregor would definitely be down to this, I'm sure.

    And that's my thoughts! I sound like a grump but I'm really not. Just really disgruntled by Disney, if that isn't clear from the above.
    Would love to hear peoples' thoughts on any of this. I am here to share your pain.

    M
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  2. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I agree. The ST is just fan fiction to me. (I did like TFA to a degree)They do not seem to understand the characters. (I know Kasdan was a writer but still). I did like RO. Solo was okay.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  3. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    The franchise needs a solitary voice. If Bob Iger does not understand this, then he is wasting his time with explanations and excuses.
     
  4. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    I don't mean to be rude, but you should probably learn what the story group does before you start to criticize its members. They aren't writers because that's not their job. They make sure continuity is adhered to. The idea that Chee and Hidalgo aren't the perfect members for the group is ridiculous - they know continuity as well as anyone. Their credentials are also just completely mistated here.

    It also ridiculous that the EU is treated as some holier than thou set of stories. It had some great stories and some not-so great stories. Oh and guess who were deeply involved in the EU? Chee and Hidalgo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  5. KyleKartan

    KyleKartan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Just what we needed: another Disney Bashing thread.

    So what you want is that stories beeing told again in cinema which already beeing told with comics, books, games?! I dont want that.
     
  6. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Perhaps if Expanded Universe continuity gets adapted to film, the Sequel Trilogy may fall into its own separate niche continuity with its own separate tie-in material. Future directors may finally see the importance of uniting the majority of the saga continuity.

    *Also, Disney or the Story Group may break from the implied saga continuity established by Lucas in A New Hope.

    I applaud @supamichi for expressing his or her opinions on here...regardless of whether I agree with them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  7. Gai' Phó

    Gai' Phó Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 2, 2018
    The Expanded Universe has never been dead. It keeps getting referenced in canon works. 'Legends' just implies that it's not set in stone.

    The EU needs to be adapted into high-quality animated films or series with the best talent available, which Disney obviously has access to. There are quality stories waiting to be told. I'd love to see classic characters alongside new ones like Doctor Aphra, with references to the old EU (Dash Rendar anyone?).

    I mean, I'm sure they'll get to adapting the Thrawn trilogy eventually, but the subplots that contradict the films aren't all that compelling. Just replacing "Empire" with "First Order" won't cut it. But I'd love to see those characters reworked. Let the best idea win!
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Having issues with the Disney LFL films is fine.

    Suggestions for how the old EU could be incorporated into new films/TV series/books is fine.

    Outright bashing of Disney or LFL employees is not fine.

    Use this thread well.

    @LAJ_FETT
     
  9. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    they simply dont care about the original characters. but they cant write so all of their new characters are purely archetypes with no real true characterization. and thus they are completely forgettable.
     
  10. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    People understand the characters just fine, and yes, the writers (the actual ones, not the ones that wrongly get stated to be writers here) are perfectly capable of writing.

    You not liking what they are doing does not equal them being bad at their job. Seriously, some people really need to learn the difference between their opinion and some sort of objective measurement to whether someone is a good writer. Not that being a good writer means all that much. A good writer will still have better and worse material, just like a "bad" one does. And whether something is well structured and logically sound doesn't mean that everyone will like it. Something that many people consider to be good will be considered bad by others, just like something that is considered bad by many will be considered good by others.

    This reads more like the usual "I didn't like what I get, so I insult the people responsible" type of whining, instead of actual valid criticism. Especially when you include statements that show a clear lack of knowledge about who does what and who is responsible for things. Not to mention the rather ridiculous idea that the people involved "just don't care". How would you possibly know? Again, they not doing what you would like to see does not mean that they are bad at what they are doing, and it sure as heck doesn't mean that they don't care. That is such a useless and insulting statement. The logic couldn't be more flawed. There is zero connection between you liking something and the level of care the person responsible had for it. Tolkien spend much of his life on developing Middle Earth, yet there are plenty of people who find his writings dull as heck. Does that somehow mean that Tolkien didn't care about what he did? Of course not!

    I really don't know why some people make up such rubbish excuses for their dislike of something. You don't like something, fine! There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. There doesn't even need to be a specific reason, as one can just feel that something is off without necessarily being able to pin-point the reasons for it. Which makes it completely useless to make up lies about or accusations against the people responsible. And even if you do find specific reasons as for why you don't like something, "they didn't care" is never a good argument at all.


    Disregarding the lack of knowledge about what the Story Group is for, please stop acting as if you somehow speak for the fans, because you don't. You are one fan, that is all. Your opinion doesn't stand for what the fandom as a whole thinks, because there is no such thing as "what the fans think". Your opinion doesn't somehow get more valid just because you try to project it as the voice of the fandom, so why take that route instead of simply stating your opinion as what it actually is: your opinion. Disliking something is a perfectly valid point of view without this weird approach to redefine yourself as some sort of moral authority on the matter.
     
  11. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I agree that Rogue One and Solo were great. And I also acknowledge it is possible that those ones (as well as Mandalorian) were so successful partially because they are ultimately branch-offs of beloved characters, events and time periods we're familiar with-specifically surrounding the OT timeline.

    In my opinion, any percieved issues with the ST could've been prevented in one way: Have ONE coherent over-arcing storyline laid out ahead of time, and have it play out across the entire trilogy. That way, there'd be much more room for proper character development and exposition/world building that would leave the viewer satisfied, without having to turn to a bunch of books and comics etc. to get clarification on plot points. It seems TROS finally started to realize that this should've been done-and they did their best in that one to rectify it-but the whole trilogy would have played out much smoother, and felt a lot less disjointed if they had a fully-mapped out story planned from the beginning all the way through to the iris out on TROS.

    I actually did enjoy the ST in general, and I loved TROS. But I still had issues with several parts of it-mostly surrounding how the characters were written...but that's a whole separate conversation!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  12. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    To me the main problem, insofar as a problem exists that can be quantified, is that after the purchase they hurried to put out a Star Wars movie every year. This had to do with business pressures I'm sure. The secondary problem is that they discarded too much of George Lucas' outline. Had they trusted his vision for the story a little more, I suspect old and new fans might be happier on average.

    That said I am one of the more amenable fans to the Sequel trilogy, even if my headcanon still vascillates between deeming them "highest possible quality lisenced fan fiction" and "most flawed of the three legitimate Star Wars trilogies." Considering all the pressure they were under, I have to say the new films were not so bad. I feared much, much worse from the sequels.
     
    oierem and Iron_lord like this.
  13. oierem

    oierem Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Yeah, the fact that they rushed to make SW films isn't a good sign. That's the problem with franchises, they set up release dates long before they have any actual stories to tell. In a perfect world, first they would think up something interesting to tell, and then decide to make the film.

    I don't agree with what you say about Lucas' outline. I'm sure fans would hate it if they had followed it. Remember that Lucas is anything but conventional, so he would definitely not have made a ST following fan expectations. But since that outline went unused, it has achieved a cult status, similar to Frank Darabont's Indy 4 script had back in 2008, or GRR Martin's unpublished ending of his saga. An unknown/unfinished script will always seem better than the actual film we get.

    Let me tell you I sympathize with your feelings about the ST, and I'm rather curious what your final veredict will be a few years from now. I do consider them to be "highest possible quality lisenced fan fiction", but that's partly because I never expected them to be anything else.