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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Calling all Phantom fanatics! (Back in theaters May 3rd!)

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Hilal, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. StartCenterEnd

    StartCenterEnd Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2006
    I've been watching ANH and TPM a lot recently and got to thinking a possibly sacrilegious thought...

    Does Phantom Menace handle Anakin in the third act better than New Hope handles Luke in the third act?

    Consider this. In TPM, Anakin is a slave who loves his mother and unwittingly earns his way to freedom to live out his dream to become a hero, Jedi and pilot. Then he is literally rejected by the Jedi Council and not allowed to be a Jedi and becomes basically dead weight being carried around by Qui Gon akin to Jar Jar. He ends up saving the day by taking out the droid control ship. This rejection by the Jedi and his being basically luggage hauled around makes his eventual triumph all the more powerful.

    Now don't get me wrong, Luke has a similar arc in ANH and it's pretty powerful in its own right but he wasn't a slave and was never rejected for training by Obi Wan or denied joining the rebellion or anything. His triumph is more the new recruit emerging as the best pilot and the savior which is really powerful too but on paper Anakin's arc feels even more-so to me.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    I agree. But blowing up the Death Star isn't even close to the most significant point in Luke's OT arc.

    I don't think the comparison is irrelevant by any means. It just doesn't really tell me much about how their respective story arcs compare to one another.
     
  3. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I mean, I guess, but Anakin doesn't beat the odds and destroy the Droid Control Ship in spite of the Jedi Council. He did it through straight luck. I mean, through half the fight, he has no idea what's going on. None of those well trained qualified Naboo pilots manages it, but here is a little kid who doesn't even know how the controls work that manages it. This is in contrast to Luke, who we know is component behind the controls, amongst people of similar skill. Yes, the Force helped him make the final shot, but he actually knew what was going on, and knew the stakes. It makes his journey more powerful, as we see him succeed through a struggle, as opposed to Anakin just kind of... Doing it.
     
  4. MarcJordan

    MarcJordan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2014
    You may not watch TPM the same again. But I can assure you'll watch it again after this. Follow the related colors: :cool:

    The Council of Qui Gon

    WATTO : Don't get me wrong. I have great faith in the boy. He's a credit to your race, but Sebulba there is going to win, I think. (Qui Gon ultimately right that Anakin would win)
    QUI-GON : Why?
    WATTO : He always wins. (laughs) I'm betting heavily on Sebulba.
    QUI-GON : I'll take that bet.
    WATTO : What??!! What do you mean?
    QUI-GON : I'll wager my new racing pod against...say...the boy and his mother.
    WATTO : No pod is worth two slaves! Not by a long shot!
    QUI-GON : The boy, then...

    WATTO : We'll let fate decide. Blue it's the boy, red his mother...

    The Jedi Council vs Qui Gon


    KI-ADI : The Force is strong with him.

    QUI-GON : He's to be trained, then?.
    MACE WINDU : No. He will not be trained.
    QUI-GON : No??!!
    MACE WINDU : He is too old. The code forbids it. (Windu thought the code of age would win taking Anakin out of the equation)
    QUI-GON : He is the chosen one...you must see it.
    YODA : Clouded, this boy's future is.
    QUI-GON : I will train him, then. I take Anakin as my Padawan learner.
    YODA : An apprentice, you have, Qui-Gon. Impossible, to take on a second.
    YODA : Young Skywalker's fate will be decided later.

    I took the liberty of removing some of the excess. Because you know these Phantom Fanatic types. :p

    Cheers!

    MJ

     
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  5. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Nice catch!
     
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  6. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Natural
    [​IMG]

    Technological
    [​IMG]

    Jedi master and apprentice in light
    [​IMG]

    Sith master and apprentice in darkness
    [​IMG]

    "The film is ultimately about the Dark Side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. And we all have those two sides of us and that we have to make sure that those two sides of us are in balance."

    - George Lucas
     
  7. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    ^^^ Nice observation. Superficially, the Jedi and Sith are not that different. Both wear hooded cloaks, use lightsabers and have master/apprentices. It's their philosophy of the Force that's different.
     
  8. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    "The Phantom Menace" is neither my favorite SW movie or my favorite Prequel Trilogy film. However, it does feature my favorite SW sequence of all time - namely the podrace at Mos Espa. I really love this sequence - from the moment Anakin and the others arrive at the arena, to the departure of Queen Amidala's ship from Tatooine. It is my favorite sequence out of all the SW movies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  9. Sith Lord Koala

    Sith Lord Koala Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2021
    Phantom Menace is such a good start of the prequels because you see the importance of Anakin to his mentors and you see
    why he's chosen to be Darth Vader in the older films. I know this film has backlash but I adore the film more-so then the others.
    Also; the adventure of Anakin learning about what he's meant for and meeting Padme as well is all of a great story in of itself.
     
  10. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Big EP1 fan here. Always have been. My only gripes are that Anakin should have been older and Jar Jar did overstay his welcome a bit. The rest is great though. Its just good stuff. QuiGons behavior is classically decadent and I love it. We see that the jedi are in fact real people and not robotic monks. He breaks a few rules to get whats needed. Bravo. So well done. Nice to see a pro-EP1 thread. :)
     
  11. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    OK, watched this last night. Still a great ride! Couple things:
    @Outsourced makes a good point about Anakin "lucking" his way through the end battle. I didn’t care for that. Why not have him actually do it through force usage or at least make it not just so silly? I didn’t mind at first that he was fumbling about but I didn’t like him destroying the control ship like that. It takes away from his character a bit.

    Did I see during the pod race towards the end when they do a quick cut to Shmi, Padme, Quigon in that tower that QuiGon had his eyes closed purposely for a moment? Was he influencing the outcome of the race or trying to? It was a brief scene but it stuck out. He wasn’t just blinking. The scene happens when Sebulba and Anakin are trading paint right before Sebulba crashes.

    I’ve said it before but I love QuiGons overall attitude. He’s the Jedi bad boy. It’s refreshing and he’s still one of my favorite characters even though he only gets one movie appearance.
     
  12. SmokeMonster4815162342

    SmokeMonster4815162342 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Best of the prequels easily.

    Incredible art direction and visual execution. (Seriously, why do the Maul action scenes feel so much bigger and mythic compared to the Dooku/Vader ones).
     
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  13. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    TPM is not one of my favorites-in fact it's a few from the bottom, mostly due to its odd pacing and Jar Jar slapstick. But I will say I DO respect it as a film that effectively sets the stage for an entire saga-and it does have some very memorable moments.
     
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  14. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    The only things I dislike about TPM are the Chosen One story elements, the medichlorians, and the Gungans. I still think it's a good follow-up to ROTJ and with one more draft, could have been near perfect.

    I think the prophecy element is tired and unneeded, especially since The Matrix did it the same year. Medichlorians are unnecessary and mostly silly.

    The Gungans is where my issue is at. They cause the movie to come to a dead stop right as it's just getting going. We start off on the Neimoidian ship, get attacked, head for the planet, have to save the queen, fight off battle droids, get aboard her ship, run the blockade, and then the audience finally gets a chance to breath. It could have been a great twenty minutes. ...but instead we come to a dead stop just to set up Gungans so that we can use them for a massive CGI battle at the end. The pacing of the movie comes to a dead hault.

    I know that's sort of bashing, but I legitimately love everything else about the movie. I think if Lucas would have waited until the ground battle of AOTC to show off his "War and Peace" battle, the Gungans could have been cut and the movie would flow a lot better.
     
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  15. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    That was just bad timing. Star Wars was written and shot before the matrix. The matrix was just released earlier. By 2021 - 22 years later - I’d say The Phantom Menace is the better know fantasy film from 1999. I don’t even think of Neo as the one when watching Ep.1 anymore.

    Had Phantom Menace come out first I wonder how people would have reacted to the matrix. Really Neo being the One is much bigger part of the story than Anakin. Basically the prophesy helps get Anakin plucked out of obscurity. We see Neo prove he is the one in the Matrix.

    I do wonder if Lucas always had Anakin referred to as The Chosen One, or if he made a last minute update from just “the one”. I guess the Ep1 trailer had it in it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  16. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    The prophecy was ultimately meaningless anyway. It only held water from 19 MAY 1999 to 20 DECEMBER 2019.
     
  17. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Yoda said as much in 2005.
     
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  18. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    I have to wonder if Lucas himself was 100% sure of that prophecy being real? Why else would he put that Yoda dialogue and hint at Palpatine being able to cheat death in ROTS?
     
  19. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I definitely leaves room for interpretation. I remember when the prophecy/ destiny and fatherless birth of Darth Vader were controversial with fans as something negative. Ironic 20 years later it’s just as controversial that later movies overrule the destiny. (fatherless birth still in place)

    My rationalization for it all - Anakin had to be a Force Ghost to finally fulfill the prophesy. He got half way there in Return of the Jedi. Once Anakin was redeemed and one with the Force, the Jedi spirits became more powerful and could actually prevent the Sith from cheating death. We don’t get any of that directly in The Rise of Skywalker but I like to think there is room to interpret what we see in that way. Not even Rey is aware of this going to Exegol.

    But events play out the way they need to. And the Jedi spirits do something to really end the Sith, we just can’t see it.
     
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  20. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    It’s not bashing at all. Jar Jar and the Gungans remain one of the few sores on the butt of TPM. I’m with ya. And they are a pacing killer as you pointed out. That entire end battle was so underwhelming and not interesting at all too. It’s droids we don’t care about against Gungans we don’t care about. Meh.
     
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  21. Aah Fisto

    Aah Fisto Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    I can totally appreciate why people find the gungans annoying but I really enjoy them as a part of this brilliant film.

    I love seeing new species and seeing the primitive gungan warriors going to battle against the droid army was really interesting to me. I loved that it was a battle involving two completely new concepts which didn’t include storm/clone troopers. I love seeing the shield go up and their different array of weapons. As much as I don’t mind Jar Jar I do think his scenes during the battle are a little overdone

    But yes for the rest of the film I’m sure it’s common knowledge on here from my rankings that I love TPM. While it does have a slow pace in parts, it really opens up the saga and lays some really good groundwork with Anakin, his attachments and what’s to come. The score is really brilliant for this film and it’s one of my all time favourite opening ten minutes of any film
     
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  22. DarthKreVass

    DarthKreVass Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2008
    I love the prequels. TPM was awesome to me, when it came out. Everything (all three prequel flicks) had a pulp-ish look to everything. The textures and designs. Even the designs had this "old time feel" to them. And, I wanted to see GLs vision of what happened before the OT. I may not agree with all his choices, but seeing how the ST turned out, I would take his decisions any day of the week, when it comes to Star Wars.
     
  23. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    The prophecy meant crap to me in the Sequel Trilogy. As far as I'm concerned, Anakin was the Chosen One. And he became the Chosen One in a way that many did not expect.
     
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  24. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    All good. TPM is great. Always was and always will be. The early politics, the Tatooine scenes, Darth Maul, QuiGons delinquent behavior and so much more. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  25. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I fail to see how Qui-Gon's behavior is delinquent, much less decadent [face_thinking]
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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