Can a Jedi generate lightning?

Y'know Wolverine you just said you cant believe how ignorant "I" can be, but it's you who keeps applying this "practice" scenario (even after I've told you about other options) so either the ignorance is on your part or you're intentionally 'playing dumb'.

You havent 'intelligently' addressed anything that I've came at you with.....

Instint??

OH...MY...GOD!

You havent even addressed my point about Dooku's "knowledge of the force" statement.....
you're saying the same thing over and over again to answer different questions.

The best thing for you to do at this point is to just come clean and say you dont know.

Vortigern Edit: I removed the name-calling. Please consider this your first warning.

 

Friends, let's keep it civil in here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if you personally do not find their arguments persuasive. One does not lack intelligence simply because he or she disagrees with your own conclusions.

 

And Vortigern its not about being "persuavive".....the reality of it is that this is an issue that has never been addressed by Lucas so all people have are really vague quotes, their preconcieved perceptions of these characters and their abilities, and how much of the saga they choose to incorporate into this.

Acting like ones own perception of these characters, and the way you interpret a generalized/vague quote should be seen as fact, only serves to make an ass out of yourself.


EDIT:
and no I'm not directing that at anybody, I'm just speaking in general.^

 

...Or, r8hitman, you can just heed Vort's warnings and leave it at that.

Remember, both of you, it may take you many minutes to write up a post blasting the other person, it takes me about five seconds to remove it.

 

Well "Vort" agrees with Wolverine so his posts go unedited, but mine get immediately removed??



Saying someone is trolling shouldnt even be put in the same category as "namecalling"....if I were namecalling I could come up with much more than just 'troll'.

But hey....it is what it is.

 

Your post was edited after Vort issued a warning that you ignored by trying to antognize Wolverine by calling him a troll, as if using 'net speak somehow made it OK. Granted his posting was not appropriate, but once the mods have stepped in further accusations from the person who was involved the argument (you, in this case) with is called "baiting".

You'll also notice the last time Wolverine ignored a warning I edited out his entire post, too.

 

It's cool, man.

 

Groovey.

 

Awesome.

 

Really? That's cool, I thought the written EU was a veritable continuation after Return of the Jedi. I guess in a way I'm glad it's not, since the authors have driven their destiny (and characters) into the ground. I know, they have to make a compelling storyline and I'm not certain what I would have done with it, but it's just so dreary that Darth Vader made this galaxy altering sacrifice to bring balance to the Force, perfect resolution was achieved, and then we have to relive the whole damn thing over again with Jacen.

The Rise and Fall: Darth Vader makes reference to Splinter of the Mind's Eye interspliced with the other movies such as ANH and the prequels, so I'm not exactly sure what that means canoninically.

 

I think it means Splinter is considered a part of EU canon.

 

I don't see the big deal about this. Jedi can produce lightning, but at their own risk. Someone else compared it to vaapad, and that's the way I see it. It is a power associated by the dark side because it is a dark side power, but that doesn't exclude Jedi from knowing it. Yoda deflects and absorbs the lightning, which may indicate he had some sort of working knowledge of the power. Not that he necessarily could use it or ever employ it.

The EU definitely over does the lightning thing. But they're trying to sell books, video games and comics, and force lightning is a fan favorite. And the EU does this to everything, whether its make 4000 year old Jedi 4000 times better than their descendants or having unnamed nothings pull star destroyers out of the sky to mock the powers we see in the movies, it's what they do. I still like the EU, but when you have so much canonized media filtering through it's inevitable errors and misjudgements will be made.

 

I agree 100% with CraigTNelson on this matter, both regarding the use of lightning by the Jedi (they can produce it at the risk of falling to the Dark Side), and the sales angle of the EU, which is sometimes very good but also panders to a young adult fanbase, inevitably producing some less-than-excellent material.

 

Of course a Jedi could do it, because a Jedi can fall to the dark side. But you have to use the dark side to create it. It's a "dark side power". It can't be created through the light side.

 

But don't you think they would have to know it to be able to defend against it? My guess is that Yoda knew how to generate it, and thus knew how to defend against it. He wouldn't be corrupted, and thus he could. He could also teach others to defend against it...

 

I don't see why it would be any different than deflecting other energy things with their hands such as blaster shots which I'm sure those such as Yoda could do.

 

Have you ever seen Yoda mould blaster shots? I'm not sure it would be all that similar - Luke, for instance, doesn't seem to have a clue as what to do with it...

 

So are you suggesting that somehow Yoda managed to teach Luke everything he knew about the Force in a few months, knowledge that took him the better part of 900 years to accumulate? Perhaps Luke doesn't seem to know what to do with it is telling of the fact that in the very short time he was trained, that particular lesson wasn't on the extremely shortened Jedi curriculum Yoda had in mind...Perhaps had Yoda had a few years to train Luke, he would have been trained in a lot more skills...as it was, Luke was trained for a specific purpose...to fight Vader and Palpatine. As Sith, those two would be more likely to use lightsabers rather than blasters, so it makes sense that Yoda would train Luke in those attacks he felt the Emperor and Vader would be most likely using.

 

That's exactly what I meant
Yoda didn't have a chance to teach him everything - and that's why I wrote that he didn't seem to have a clue what to do with the lightning.

 

But don't you think they would have to know it to be able to defend against it?

Being able to defend against it doesn't necessarily mean practical experience in generating or practice deflections. I don't think learning mastery of the Force is something that happens in general terms. Before becoming a Jedi knight Luke only had two saber battles, both against a more knowledge and experience opponent (Vader) and he won the second of the two. This shows that learning and using the Force isn't a conventional matter. Yoda could know how to deal with Force lightening not based on practical experience with Force lightening, but as Dooku said, his knowledge of the Force. This is my thought on the matter, anyway.

 

No, but I think Yoda could. Energy is energy. Luke was clueless against Force Lightning, but I don't think he'd be able to block a blaster shot without a saber either.

 

More movie evidence that Jedi can use lightning...I just rewatched AOTC this morning, and noticed something very interesting during Yoda's fight with Dooku. When Dooku attempts to blast Yoda with lightning, not only does Yoda block it, but he throws it right back at him. This is different than what he does with Palpatine in ROTS, where he converts it into some sort of energy ball, Yoda clearly, on film, throws the lightning back at Dooku...

Well, why is this important? Because those that claim Jedi cannot use lightning do so under the argument that it is not a physical limitation, but that because lightning is so devastating, causes so much pain, it is equal to torture, so that using it would lead them to the dark side. That you need to channel hatred and anger to use it. They would argue that Yoda was merely reversing Dooku's trick...but, without taking into considerations the ramifications of that reversal. By reversing it, and sending the lightning directly back at Dooku, Yoda is directly targeting a lightning strike against an opponent, intending to cause the same pain and suffering as Dooku was...

If lightning were the path to the dark side, Yoda should have either converted it into something else, like he does in ROTS, or shunted it off to the side, dissipating its energy. But instead, he sends all of the energy from the lightning directly back and Dooku, retaining the lightning energy. He was directly attempting to use the exact same power Dooku did, in the same circumstance, trying to defeat his opponent. They cannot argue that Dooku deserved it, as that would mean Yoda was seeking vengeance, tapping into the dark side, despite being the Jedi Grand Master. Basically, Yoda would know better. A Grand Master like Yoda would not ever use the dark side. They cannot argue that merely turning a Sith power around is okay, because that would be the equivalent of the ends justifying the means, a philosophy no Jedi would agree with... If lightning is so evil, Yoda had no business turning it back on Dooku. When Mace does it, the lightning is reflecting off of the lightsaber, Mace is merely defending himself, and the lightning bounced from his saber back to Palpatine. Mace didn't directly do it, so it is not the same situation. Yoda however, DOES directly do it. And faces absolutely no recriminations from Obi-Wan and Anakin. He seems absolutely no more vulnerable to the dark side as he did before. Instead, it would seem from that scene, that lightning is merely a tool to be used by a force user, and is not necessarily good or evil.

Yoda directly turns lightning back at Dooku. If it is inherently evil when Dooku does it, because of the effects it has on opponents, it would have also been evil for Yoda to reverse it back to him, because he was trying to achieve the same effects. Jedi do not believe in an eye for an eye. If lightning were inherently evil, Yoda would have done anything else other than turn it immediately back around at Dooku.

 

I think we are meant to believe that whatever Yoda is doing vs. the lightning in AOTC is of the same nature as what he is doing vs. the lightning in ROTS.

 

except if you watch the scenes, what Yoda does with the lightning are two completely different things. In AOTC, he turns the lightning back on Dooku, in ROTS, he manages to contain the energy from Palpatine's lightning, kinda rolls it into a ball, and then shoots that back at him...the scene from AOTC shows that Yoda did not have to roll the energy into a ball to shoot back, so his doing so in ROTS cannot be explained as a Jedi being forced to convert the energy into something a Jedi would use rather than a Sith, because he wasn't forced to do it in AOTC, under the same circumstances. Had he also rolled the energy from the lightning into a ball against Dooku, as he had with Palpatine, I would agree that it was the same power being used. And therein lies the problem. Yoda shows in AOTC that he doesn't need to convert the Sith produced energy into anything else, as some had argued. Nor does he seem unwilling to use the lightning because of its dark side nature, as some have also argued. What we have in that scene is the Jedi Grand Master using Dooku's lightning against him, in a specific, deliberate way, in the exact same way Dooku tried to use it against Yoda...as an offensive weapon. How can it then be considered to be a Sith exclusive power?