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Senate Canadian Politics: Not Completely Boring

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth_Duck, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    The writ has dropped and Canadians will be going to the polls on October 21st
    Current Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of the Liberal Party of Canada (LPC) currently holds a majority in the House of Commons, Andrew Scheer of the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC) is the leader of the Official Opposition and leader of the party with the best and onliest chance of defeating the LPC, (but probably not). Other major party leaders are Jagmeet Singh of New Democratic Party (NDP), Elizabeth May of the Green Party, Yves-Francois Blanchet of the Quebec-only Bloc Quebecois (BQ) and "Mad Max" Maxime Bernier of the People's Party of Canada.

    Here's Hasan Minhaj talking about it from an American Perspective:



    Debate Schedule:

    September 12: CityTV/Maclean's Debate on the Economy, Foreign Policy, Indigenous Issues and the Environment - Participating: Scheer, Singh and May, Declined: Trudeau, Not Invited: Blanchet and Bernier

    October 1: Munk Debates on Foreign Policy - Participating: Scheer, Singh and May, Declined: Trudeau, Not Invited: Blanchet and Bernier

    October 2: TVA French Language debate - Participating: Trudeau, Scheer, Singh and Blanchet, Not Invited: May and Bernier

    October 7: Leaders' Debate Commission English Debate - Participating: Trudeau, Scheer, Singh, Blanchet and May. Not Invited: Bernier

    October 10 Leaders' Debate Commission French Debate - Participating: Trudeau, Scheer, Singh, Blanchet and May. Not Invited: Bernier

    Parliamentary standings as of dissolution:
    LPC: 177
    CPC: 95:
    NDP: 39
    BQ: 10
    Green: 2
    PPC: 1
    Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (CCF): 1
    Independents: 8
    Vacant: 5

    Some polling information:
    CBC's Polltracker
    338.com
     
  2. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I am an ignorant yankee with only general knowledge of Canadian politics, but it sounds like the NDP is the best choice. I heard the Greens signaled willingness to enter into a coalition with Conservatives so they sound like useless "centrists" as much as the LibDems in the UK.

    I like that Minhaj blindsided Trudeau with serious questions and didn't buy the whole "selling oil to fight climate change makes sense if you don't think about it."
     
  3. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    I like the NDP, I usually vote NDP, but they're a mess right now. They don't have anywhere near a full slate of candidates across the country (like half the ridings have no NDP candidates as of last week)

    Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
     
  4. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Not gonna lie, this is the entirety of my knowledge of Canadian politics:


    So, uh, the video overview is appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  5. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  6. Joystick Chevron

    Joystick Chevron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Oh boy, can't wait for more of Justin Trudeau's oil pipelines, selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, trying to spare corporations from consequences and fighting Indigenous people over healthcare that would cost a fraction of the legal fees.



    Or Andrew Scheer. Which would be all of that and much, much worse. Fun. I mean, I'd like NDP, but I'm not exactly optimistic about their chances on this one.
     
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  7. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2015
    Yeah I'm a social democrat, but the current NDP are too inept to do much. They'll be lucky to not get slaughtered this election, and it won't help that the Liberals will basically copycat their policies to lure away the centre-left voters. Looks like I'm begrudgingly voting for Trudeau again...
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  8. Empress Shatterpoint

    Empress Shatterpoint Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Right now there's no major difference between the federal Greens and the NDP. The Greens tend to be social democrats whose raison d'être is protecting the environment. The New Democrats tend to be environmentalists whose raison d'être is transforming Canada into a proper social democracy. Their number one priorities are different but their platforms are nearly identical. In 2015 the Greens went much to the left of the NDP on social programs (they offered basic income and better healthcare coverage), which is why I voted for them despite my NDP membership. In 2019 they're both anti-pipeline (not the case for the NDP in 2015), pro universal eye care/dental care/pharmacare/mental care, pro 15$/h, etc. At this point they might as well merge the federal parties into the "Green Democrats" instead of splitting the progressive vote.

    Provincially is where you see the variation in these parties. The Alberta NDP, which governed for the first time after a lifetime of Conservative dynasties, from May 2015 to April 2019, went in all the way to try to make pipelines be built. The Saskatchewan NDP, now in official opposition, has been pretty pro pipeline themselves and the Manitoba NDP is lacking an environmentalist vision. The governing BCNDP has been anti-TMX for the duration of their term. Whilst the NB NDP, NS NDP, Ontario NDP are as green as their Green Party counterparts. It's very much a prairie vs rest of Canada division in progressive circles about pipelines endorsement and the desired pace of green transition, although they all agree we should phase out fossil fuels. As far as social democracy goes, the Green Party of Québec call themselves eco-socialists, the NB Greens are to the left of the NB NDP, but the BC Greens are nothing more than "tories on a bike". So there you have it, the NDP can take a variety of positions on energy/pipelines depending on the leader, whilst the Greens can place themselves anywhere on the right-left spectrum depending on the leader.

    A Green Government federally under current leader Elizabeth May (leader since 2006, elected as the first Green MP in 2011) would be just like having an NDP Government. And I say that as an NDP partisan. I may very well vote for them again in October because NDP leader Jagmeet Singh has not bothered to visit my province since he won the leadership (it's not hard to do, we only have 10 provinces and 3 territories). He's managed to make a mess of the NDP with his blatant incompetence (contradicting official party positions, being wishy-washy on pipelines until a second Green MP from BC entered the House of Commons on a byelection in May, making weird blunders on just about any TV interview he's done, not knowing jack **** about domestic or international files...) and I'm really up to here with his alienation of just about every NDP provincial wing. He's managed to sink the NDP from a credible government alternative, second place in Québec and respected party into a party which may lose it's official party status in October and be surpassed by the Greens in votes...

    Elizabeth May is a much more experienced and knowledgable leader, and one who's never altered her principles. She even got arrested protesting TMX, along with then NDP MP Kennedy Stewart. She was pondering supporting either a Liberal or Conservative government under the conditions that this party would bend to her environmental wishes, but she finally decided to ditch that idea because of how unwilling these parties are to put out something resembling a proper environmental policy... She & the Green Party of Canada are nothing like the austerity-loving LibDems in the UK.
     
  9. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I got an unsolicited text message from the Conservatives and thereby it has fully ensured I will never vote for them . That's it. Game over. Whoever does not send one will receive my vote. PCs will never, because I did not want them to text me. I'm warning you with peace and love to any political party who attempts to send one as well. I am bitter and I hold lifelong grudges.

     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  10. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I like the NDP but apparently Singh has been opting not to run candidates in different ridings if he can't find suitable minority candidates. Instead of, you know, running white dudes who are available. This will for sure cause the party to lose simply because they aren't going to be in as many ridings as they can be.
     
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
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  12. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I bet she's gonna talk about horrible things like stopping climate change and ending poverty and oppression. Literally Stalin.
     
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  13. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    That's it, I'm moving to Canada and voting CCP.


    ...uh, I mean CPC...
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  14. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    I'm looking, but I can't find a good interview with the leader of the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist).

    Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
     
  15. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    d'oh, yah, we have two Communist Parties here. We just can't decide!

    https://nationalpost.com/news/polit...rxist-votes-no-will-to-unite-canadas-far-left

    The Communist Party of Canada, founded in 1921 and based in Toronto, is the country’s historic far-left party.

    The second party, the Montreal-based Marxist-Leninists, cropped up in the 1960s. While the Communist Party was loyal to the former Soviet Union, the Marxist-Leninists sided with China and rebelled against the “revisionism” of Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev.

    Officially, the party’s title is “Communist Party of Canada, Marxist-Leninist,” but Elections Canada made it pick the current name to avoid ballot confusion.
     
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  16. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Dude do you not know about Commie Sectarianism lmao it's a tale as old as the February Revolution.

    Nobody hates communists more than slightly different communists.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  17. Lordban

    Lordban Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Vive le Québec Libre !

    (Sorry, resident Gaullist :p )
     
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  18. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    "The people of Canada are free. Every province in Canada is free. Canadians do not need to be liberated. Indeed, many thousands of Canadians gave their lives in two world wars in the liberation of France and other European countries." - from the response to De Gaulle from Lester B. "Mike" Pearson, President of the United Nations General Assembly (1952), Nobel Peace Prize Laureate (1957), Prime Minister of Canada (1963-1968)

    Anyway, tonight at 8pm Eastern is the Maclean's/CityTV debate between Scheer, Singh and May. Will it mean anything without Trudeau? Probably not much. A good performance from Singh might lead to a much-needed positive news cycle for the NDP, a bad performance is just more fuel for the "the NDP is doomed in 2019" crowd (of which I am one). May is going to be appealing to disenchanted Liberals and Dippers, as the most experienced leader on stage this should be easy for her, but a candidate in Quebec has expressed some separatist views and has made that a new minefield for the Greens to wade through. Scheer just has to show up and not sound like too much of a social conservative and he's had a good night. This is just practice until he can take the stage with Trudeau.

    Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
     
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  19. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    yah Trudeau probably looked at the polls and decided to take the night off or something.

    Feeling a little bad for how doomed the NDP are. Might give them a pity vote.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  20. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    There's an empty podium on stage for Trudeau.

    Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
     
  21. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Scheer should totally bring back that Clint Eastwood babbling at an empty chair bit Clint did at the Republican convention years ago! It'd go over huge!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  22. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Way too much cross talk during the first 10 minutes. Scheer was pretty steady. May was fine. Singh is trying to tie Scheer to Doug Ford in Ontario. And Singh really wants you to know he's met people. He's met lots of people.

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  23. Empress Shatterpoint

    Empress Shatterpoint Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013
    I HATE IT when politicians revert to anecdotes...just argue on principles, FFS. I don't care about who you've met, and the other person you've met, and the other other person you've met...

    I have to say I think Singh is doing better than I expected. He's effective at targeting Scheer and seems much more confident than usual. Much better than Trudeau in 2015. Scheer somewhat wins by being less antagonistic than Harper, but he wouldn't be clear on respecting & acting on the court decision on First Nation compensation on reserves. I think May is performing the best so far though, she's solid on every topic.
     
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  24. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    I was listening to Peter Mansbridge's election podcast and oh how I missed his sexy, soothing voice. The chattering classes seem to be giving the week to Jagmeet Singh, thanks to him slightly exceeding the low expectations everyone had for him.

    I don't know how I'm going to vote yet. It's between the NDP and Greens.

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  25. Empress Shatterpoint

    Empress Shatterpoint Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013
    I have only ever voted NDP or Green and will continue to limit my voting options to these two progressive parties. I just cannot stomach another majority status quo government.

    I think most people are tired of traditionally governing parties like the LPC and CPC, but will unfortunately end up voting for one of those despite their disenchantment in order to stop the other from getting in. If that happens I only hope it's a minority that lasts a few years and dissolves into another election that gives us an NDP or Green government.

    I was struck at how the Maclean's debate seemed more productive without the Bloc and the Liberals. Without Blanchet to push everything into a "Canada vs Québec" narrative and Trudeau to deliver his usual "Harper is still here/middle class and those working hard to join it" lines, it was just better to listen to. Not looking forward to the other ones, it'll likely get politically dirtier than it has been so far.

    This general election will be a test of how Canadians can become more cynical and politically apathetic...
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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