ST Canto Bight

I wasn't talking about how he broke protocol. You're trying to change the subject. I was talking about his motive to break protocol. It was based on his belief system. Not sure in the slightest why you want to pretend he didn't have that belief system. How Finn broke protocol is irrelevant to this discussion, although I'm definitely interested in exploring that. TLJ should have explored that instead of wasting time redoing Finn's TFA arc.

Uh the point is Rose called him a deserter knowing he isn't Resistance. He's an escaped ST that helped the Resistance, i.e., he is not a deserter. She should be thanking him, not assuming he's signed up and is willing to die for her cause. He has his own issues and background and beliefs that he has every right to.

 

how was he able to have a belief system, if they are allowed to have a belief system than how come no other storm trooper ever felt the same way and deserted. the truth is he is an anomaly as far as storm troopers go all around is my pt. he basically woke out of a stupor and ran immediately only ever stopping bc as he puts it found somebody that really looked at him aka rey.

rose has no Idea he is not resistance she thinks he is, he basically lied to everyone in TFA and said he was resistance, so in her mind finn is a hero that broke ranks of the storm troopers and became a resistance fighter and destroyed skb. thats all she know of him, is the legend he himself help create during the events of TFA. remember she just works on pipes behind the scenes, im sure neither poe or leia came down there and said to her you know that finn guy stop being a fangirl bc he is not what you think he is. hell in fact the only person around that really knows he conned his way onto skb is dead aka han, chewy is with rey after all.

 

I don’t know what this has to do with the conversation. Yeah I’m interested in the “how” too, but we were talking about the “why.” Finn has beliefs that he’s willing to die for. RJ didn’t write him learning to have beliefs. They’ve been there from the beginning.

Okay now you’re just making stuff up. No one in the Resistance thought Finn was Resistance.

He is a hero. He did get the shields down. Doesn’t mean he joined her cause. He just left a freaking cult and it’s been two days. He’s a person, not a robot.

Right, she didn’t know him. She assumed and then attacked him and insulted him after he saved the Resistance’s mission based on her presumptuous, self-absorbed assumptions.

 

Canto Bight sequence could have used some re-editing.

It's a shame the deleted scene wasn't included in the film because it would have provided a much richer visual context to how Finn and Rose view the place and it's significance. Finn seems in awe of what he's seeing at Canto Bight, but without that deleted scene it seems like he's overreacting to something that shouldn't be that impressive or awe-inspiring.

And then the rampage/chase scene and the BB8-shoots-coins scene could have been either trimmed down or completely cut.

The political preachiness seemed out of place, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. The "failure" of the mission doesn't bother me. The editing could have really improved the world-building purposes of TLJ though.

 

It's weird. Looking at the looper clips online. You can see most everything was filmed during the regular production schedule in 2016.

But the scene when Finn and Rose are on the balcony, was shot in April 2017. So it was a reshoot.

It seems they tried to tighten the Canto Bight storyline during reshoots. But I guess it didn't work.

 

ha ha ha yeah bc finn was so upfront with rose naw he lied to her to by saying im just inspecting the escape pods, finn is a liar, it is shown again and again in both movies

 

Ah!!! That should say blooper

 

Um you said Finn lied to everyone in the Resistance in TFA. He didn't. That was false. He lied to Rey and Han. Han knew he was lying, then he confessed to Rey. He showed up at the Resistance base after he was no longer lying where Poe told everyone he was an escaped ST. So your statement was false and I corrected it.

 

Instead of Canto Bight, could not emissaries have been sent on behalf of Leia to an Imperial Remnant that seeks Vader's heirs to lead them? An entity that shunned the corrupt New Republic and the anarchic twisted First Order?

A great Imperium left over on Coruscant. And in the film's climax have the Imperial Remnant come to Leia's aid. Convinced perhaps by Luke's return.

 

Just for fun... imagine how it would have been if BB9E hadn't spotted them and they were successful.

1) They disable the tracker. Call out to Poe. Poe jumps to Hyperspace.

2) Leia and Holdo burst onto the bridge. Shoot Poe anyway for his actions. Poe wakes up and asks if it worked. They tell him it did. He asks why she wanted to run. Leia tells him Holdo didn't. They were going to go to Crait to send a distress signal from an abandoned base because they need help. Poe says I wish I'd known that. Holdo says now I wish I'd told you. Leia says that leaders always have something to learn about leadership. D'acy updates them that there's another location they can jump to where that might be possible.

3) No hyperspace kamikaze means that when the saber breaks Ben Solo isn't knocked out. They talk more. He tries to explain to her more about why she should join. She insists that she won't. He tells her to go then. Take Snoke's ship before others arrive. Be with her friends but if they cross paths again he may not be able to show the same mercy. She says the same. One last look and then she takes off.

4) Finn and DJ and BB8 and Rose perhaps need to now find a way off the ship. Successfully taking off the hyperspace tracker has drawn attention to it and their location. They're seen and briefly captured out but this time DJ is with them. He has less to offer in the form of info but lies that they all do anyway to buy time and they play along. Then they escape for real with BB8's help. But there's a twist. As they're escaping Finn's binary beacon to Rey falls in slow motion and in the chaos of being shot at he doesn't notice it. Ben Solo later picks it up.

5) Finn, Rose, BB8 and DJ communicate with the Resistance and are en route toward them. Chewie sees Snoke's shuttle pull up and hear's Rey's voice.

6) Hux storms down to see Ben Solo in the hanger and tells him Snoke is dead. Same basic scene plays out as before but this time in front of more people. Everyone salutes the new Supreme leader. Ben Solo tells him the beacon leads to the girl and the girl is going back to the Resistance.

7) The Resistance is now at a different rebel base than Crait and because we never saw Crait's it doesn't matter. This new planet could be exactly like Crait was since we never saw Crait. They do the same thing with the setup of the old equipment.

8) Finn realizes he's lost the beacon and communicates back to the Resistance to tell Rey to abandon it. After some tense moments with poor communication signals they reach Rey and Chewie but it's too late. They're already right at the planet with the base.

9) Ben Solo notices the signal has stopped. They jump to its location and we see all of the FO ships in the sky dropping out of hyperspace above the planet.

10) Same basic concept of the ending from there plays out.

So, you probably could have had it work either way... really. No matter what, heading into the final film, you wanted the villains to get the upperhand anyway so even if the tracker plan had worked most writers would have written something to still give the villains the upperhand in the end heading into the final film. The way they did it gives the cool hyperspace surprise and the greater lesson for Poe and the lesson for Finn from DJ and the Phasma and Finn fight though.

 

I would suggest that, while you seem to have an interpretation of the film in which Canto Bight is an integral component to the plot and world-building of TLJ, that interpretation is not an objective fact.

Or, to put it another way, the statement "I just don't understand whats so hard to figure out why that section is totally disconnected from the rest of the film and galaxy, and a complete waste of screen time that could have been spent on the title characters" is equally valid to your perspective. And honestly, I don't understand how someone can watch that sequence and find it important to the film or the galaxy. I can accept that people do come to that conclusion, but it utterly baffles me that they do so.

Its also terrible world-building, and falls apart from an economic analysis, which, if you're going to make a socio-economic statement, is pretty damning. I could write a few paragraphs on that alone, but simply put: there is no possible way that war profiteering is the only industry capable of making someone rich enough to go on a vacation to space Las Vegas. And even military contractors were the only industries that rich (which, again, is absurd), for Canto Bight to be horrible, we have to assume that all of them sell to the First Order.

 

Not to mention that in the prequels, most of the businesses that aligned with the Seperatists were not defense contractors. So, being a banker or a trader is profitable enough to invade a planet, and start your own interstellar government, but only building weapons of war is lucrative enough to afford a vacation.

 

I understand the intention that RJ has with the whole sequence, but that certainly does mean that I must like it. I guess for me it’s that I really find Rose very annoying.
Also,
The whole “let’s find the code breaker” thing was just overly confusing and just felt forced.

I did sort of like the environments. Didn’t care for broom boy, though.




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Well said!


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I accept that others find it difficult to figure out why the Canto Bight scenes are important to the film and the galaxy.

 

Oh, you’re just being passive aggressvie and smug. Okay, I can work with that. Tell me how the points I made are wrong.

 

Yes I must say the ultra-simplistic trivialisation of rich people = bad as "They're rich because they profit off war, that's why they're rich enough to be here" just seemed silly to me.

If I sell a blaster to the First Order I'm clearly bad. Can I afford to go on a holiday to Canto Bight? Probably not.

If I'm a major bacta manufacturer I probably make a fair pay packet, and could afford to go to Canto Bight. Is that war profiteering - actually, I guessss in a way haha, but not in the strictest sense and no one is going to accuse an aid worker of war profiteering.

 

It does have ordinary, broadly relatable (by star wars standards) people discussing the underlying ideology and how it motivates them. As opposed to Padme's curiously detached monarch/senator platitudes and the Jedi and their passive aggressive aloofnes in the PT.

 

Remember that aside from some pics in magazines, Canto Bight was never used in TLJ marketing. Not in the trailers or anything.

Why was that?

 

Yeah, that was a little smug. Sorry. In my opinion, the Canto Bight scenes are simple. There's no deep underlying meaning pertaining to the real world. It just serves the film in many ways. The overall reason for going to Canto Bight was a Hail Mary cooked up by Rose, Finn, and Poe as a way of helping the Resistance. This leads to Poe seeing his mistakes and will play into how he develops as a leader. Finn and Rose fail at their mission, but get back up and keep going. Then we see the downtrodden of Canto Bight, and by extension the rest of the downtrodden in the galaxy, that will probably play a part in rising up against the First Order. So the Canto Bight scenes play into the theme of failure that our main characters face, learning from it, and then dusting yourself off and pushing on.

 

Do you think the ST was made exclusively for people who remember, value and see those aspects in the PT or Expanded Universe though? It's clearly aimed at more of the general audience, including a whole new generation of children, whose first experiences with Star Wars may in fact be the ST itself. Finn's arc and Luke's arc both explore the downsides of choosing the third path that doesn't come to mind as often when thinking about Star Wars. Choosing to be away from the conflict entirely. Finn wanted to run and made it clear many times over that the ONLY reason he didn't was because he wants to be with Rey. In this film, away from Rey, he meets "Don't Join" who's the devil on his shoulder trying to convince him to do exactly that. It isn't busywork. It's a continuation of testing his character to see if he can be affected by seeing the possibilities of not joining that are out there in the galaxy. He's blown away by Canto Bight's bright lights and luxuriously lifestyle. He sees someone steal from a "bad guy" and become rich off that. Maybe the lone wolf way really is the way to go? You can choose who you help and stay out of the muck. Survive. Maybe he could convince Rey to agree in time? Until he sees "Don't Join's" libertine ideology at its most heartless and realizes he never wants to be someone like that at all. This plot line, IMO, is aimed most at kids overall with its falthiers stampeding and BB8 hijacking walkers so I think it's important to keep that in mind. There's a big difference between the Force Plot in ROTJ and what's going on down on Endor too if we recall and I think similar to those tonal differences one plot is aimed a little more at younger audiences than the other.

It's also important to remember that up until the very last moment where the FO catches them that plan actually had a decent shot of saving the day. That it doesn't makes it function a little closer to the Han/Leia/C3PO/Chewie plot moving from Hoth to the Exogorth to Cloud City. Right down to the introduction of a new character who'll likely be there in the finale (Rose/Lando). That arc in the OT pays off the romantic tension between Han and Leia whereas this arc possibly sets up a complication for the romantic tension between Finn and Rey. That arc in the OT ends with Han incapacitated and in possession of his arch nemesis, Boba Fett. This arc ends with Finn fighting and killing his own arch nemesis, Captain Phasma. The person who oversaw the slave program that he escaped from.

 

I have a growing urge to go to a caretaker beach rave. I have plenty of glowsticks and vapo-rub. (wrong thread but never mind, I'd rather do that than watch a fathier race)

 

But Poe doesn't see his mistake until he's already on one of the evacuations shuttles (to a planet that, had he known about, he wouldn't have mutinied in the first place, a fact entirely independent of the Canto Bight sequence). Finn and Rose fail at their mission, and get Deus Ex Machina'd out of their predicament. They're told to find the one guy in the whole galaxy who can save them, and end up in jail with the one *other* guy who can save them, saved by BB-8, and then the little kids. And these downtrodden people are not the downtrodden living under the rule of the First Order, but of the New Republic. What stake do they have in overthrowing the government that is invading the government under which they are downtrodden?

Further, it most certainly is a message pertaining to the real world (though I do agree it is not deep). But even if we restrict ourselves to a purely in-universe perspective, the question remains how it is remotely possible that this casino planet is frequented strictly by arms dealers, based on the cost. Again, if bankers can afford an army and a starfleet, I think non-arms dealers can afford a vacation.