Senate Capital - a discussion on what it is and isn't

Just to respond to this quickly...

What's your definition of capital? For it to basically mean technological means of production, but also cash? And labor? (That's what I was also talking about with dp4m, I didn't think it came across as challenging him, it's just challenging what I learned in microeconomics). Are you saying capital is just synonymous with "asset", as taught in financial accounting? I just think it's important to establish what your definition of capital is.

As for the rest. In the other thread, I was saying that definitions can change, and let people label themselves what they want. That doesn't mean that existing definitions don't matter, that would be madness. I was saying it then because I think it's better to discuss the actual policies and ideologies, not be fixated on labels and semantics, which the debate was at that time and that was boring me. And that not everyone uses the same definitions, which is why definitions need to be agreed upon to engage in any substantial debate. Arguing with Bernie supporters about the definition of democratic socialism, when it's clear their definitions were different, just seemed very semantic/unproductive/boring to me.

On the 3D printers point, I was talking about how the definition of socialism is tied to ownership/control of the "means of production." As you were generalizing in this thread's OP, socialism is most commonly thought of as state socialism, where the state becomes the owner/controller of the means of production, supposedly for the good of society. I was just saying technological trends could lead to individuals having more and more ownership and control over the means of production directly. And that it would lead to a transformation of the economy, similar to the impact of the Internet. I didn't mean to imply that the free market would automatically cease to exist, but to show how socialist goals could coexist just fine with a capitalist system.

And I'm interested, what do you think Disney has ruined? I think I know what you're talking about but I'm curious and don't want to assume.

 

My point is in a white-collar job, in most cases, the workers are the technological means of production. And therefore the labor is the capital.

 

dads' kapital

 

Therefore a democratic worker's co-op where the white-collar workers control themselves constitutes worker control of the means of production.

As an aside, an influential quote relevant to the previous discussion on the intersectionality of Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy (and also a message to the RevSocs who see Sanders as a capitalist plant):
"Can we oppose the social revolution, the transformation of the existing order, its final goal, to social reforms? Certainly not. The practical daily struggle for reforms, for the amelioration of the condition of the workers within the framework of the existing social order, and for democratic institutions, offers to the Social Democracy the only means of engaging in the proletarian class struggle and working in the direction of the final goal - the conquest of political power and the suppression of wage labor. For Socialist Democracy, there is an indissoluble tie between social reforms and revolution. The struggle for reforms is its means; the social revolution, its goal."
- Rosa Luxemburg, Social Reform or Revolution

 

lol Marxist language in the modern world. Adorable.

Ghost -

I think you utterly fail to appreciate that the 3D printing case is actually an argument for free enterprise NOT for socialism, because socialism does not allow for price discovery to occur naturally based on an equilibrium between willingness to buy vs willingness to sell. Unless some arbitrary third party is able to come in and establish the exchange between my good (as printed in your spiffy new 3D tech world) and whatever I receive in exchange, then you're just describing a massive disruption to the current market dynamics with... different market dynamics. And actually, in purely Marxist thought, my ability to produce should not require a transaction to share my widget. I love how Homo Economicus and Homo Marxist are just not real human beings. Anyway.

As for Disney; copyright having an effect for an estate beyond the death of the IP author is ridiculous and not of benefit to society. Disney successfully lobbied the Worst Government on Earth to extend it from +50 to +75 years after death because they wanted to have exclusive rights to Mickey et al.

 

Ender Sai

Here are a few questions for you:

a) which country in the world 'does' capitalism as you think it should function - regarding regulations, industrial relations, ratio of private and public ownership, etc.

b) what is your opinion on Keynesianism?

c) what's your opinion on the 'Chicago School' of economics?

 

Just leaving this here...

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2016/speech899.pdf