ST Carrie Fisher (Leia Organa) in Episode IX

About that last scene...

'We' here means Rey. Leia 'knowing' didnt have to be on screen.

Early in TLJ:

So the plan was to bring Luke back on the Falcon. Then, all of a sudden, the dice appeared in the MF's cockpit. They are not there at the end of TFA, but they are when Luke goes into the MF in TLJ

R2 plays the Leia hologram to Luke in TLJ. 'Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars...'

But this bit from ANH is missing: 'I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan.'

I wonder if Leia gave R2 the dice and he left them lying around.

In any case, the dice were already there in D'Qar, it seems, before the MF left Jakku. It sounds as if Leia had always known about a certain girl being in Jakku (and maybe everyone knew, including Ben/Kylo and Palpatine!)

As for Luke, I wonder if certain baby girl and certain dice were once connected with a certain jedi master. 'I will take care of her', much like ROTS Obi-Wan. And there was another person, I think. Padme and Obi-Wan knew Owen, after all.

 

I really don't think the dice thing was planned at all or has anything to do with Rey's background or Leia knowing about it, IMO.

I think the dice were added by Johnson because he wanted something of Han's from the OT for Luke to give to Leia when he says "no one is really ever gone", and the Kasdan's found out about the dice playing a role in TLJ, so they included shots of it in Solo to create connectivity.

That said, it's still VERY possible that Leia knows who Rey is or even is her mother.

The only two scenes they share feel very intimate and familial the way they were acted and directed, and TFA and TLJ all take place within the span of about 6 days, and they were not in the same place 99% of that time, so it could be argued that Leia never had a chance to tell Rey the truth.

Maybe what was taken out of the Leia/Rey scene at the end of TFA is revealing of this truth, and we will get that dialog in TROS.

 

@ScreamingWoman2019

I really love the idea that Leia knows and keeps it a secret, it rhymes with Obi-Wan knowing all along the truth about Luke and Leia in the CT. But this way it's fresh and actually gives the story another rich layer, so when the audience re-watches the end of TFA they're saying to themselves "she's (Leia) got a secret she's not telling her (Rey)". That's the sign of a great sequel, when it can improve the earlier film or films.

 

I've even played around with the idea that Leia did tell Rey offscreen, and Rey's newfound obsession with who her parents are instead of when are they coming back is due to seeking confirmation, as when Luke needed to hear it from Yoda to believe what Vader told him.
That's obviously not what RJ had in mind, so I doubt it happens, but it could work.
Leia absolutely knows who Rey is, and I firmly believe the reveal was filmed for TFA, so I can't wait to see it onscreen!

 

The dice were already part of TFA and 'Solo', more probably. Rian Johnson was already writing VIII by Sept 2014:

https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/n...-talks-about-taking-on-star-wars-episode-viii

But 'Solo' had re-started already, around May 2014:

So the connectivity went back and forward between TFA and 'Solo' in the beginning (dice were made for TFA, 'Kira' becoming Rey and Qi'ra appearing in Solo,etc), with TLJ building upon and around it months later.

Also...Luke gives Leia the dice. I think he planned to mindbridge Ben/Kylo and Leia. He provokes Ben/Kylo, just like Snoke had done in the beginning of the film. 'I stoked Ren's conflicted soul'.

But Leia, knowing who Rey was, changed Luke's plan. She left the dice lying there, and Ben/Kylo and Rey were 'bridged' as a result.

Snoke was offscreen during his mindbridge, and so is Leia during hers. She's the one doing it, using Luke's power. If you put side to side the last moments of the dice and the last moments of Luke (both disappearing at the same time), that ambiguity about the twin suns becomes clearer. Luke's realizing about the girl.



Leia knows at the end of TFA, but it's 'hidden', and Luke knows at the end of TLJ (and of his life), but its not evident. Not sadness or pain, but 'peace and purpose'.

Luke was once trusted with baby Rey, I think (to keep her away from Snoke) and one day the girl disappeared.

That deleted 3rd lesson in TLJ has a melancholic flavour to it, in spite of its prankish spirit.

Luke quotes ANH Obi-Wan, of all people: 'they will be back next month in greater numbers and with greater violence'.

'The raiding tribe from the neighbouring island'. The raiding tribe. The tusken raiders.

The KOR,'raiding' the clan in those old leaks, maybe looking for a very specific child. They found her. But Luke Skywalker was already around. The girl had to be stolen.

And she was, I think, while Luke was away. He says to Rey: will you be here next month?

Was she? Tatooine, Lars homestead. Maybe that's where the 'pauper's grave' in the [Jakku/Tatooine]'desert' snapshot came from. But if Luke was away, who took care of the child?

Another deleted line: 'you opened yourself to the dark side for a pair of pretty eyes'. That's what happens in the hut flashback. It's Luke talking about himself. There's a woman screaming inside Ben's head, and then Luke draws back his hand as if it burned and ignites his lightsaber. Rian Johnson, March 2017:

 

I think the nature of Luke's mood with the 3rd lesson was an attempt to take the audience back to Yoda on Dagobah, it harks back to when Yoda was being deceptive to see just what type of person Luke was.

The problem with deleted scenes and lines, they give you an indication where the writer/director was going but ultimately they thought it was either not worthy of giving it screen time or they wanted to take the story in a different direction. I think former applies to deleted 3rd lesson and the latter applies to the deleted line.

 

I don't recall seeing the dice at all in TFA. I guess I didn't squint hard enough.

 

There was a deleted scene of Han putting up the dice in TFA.

IIRC the Han Solo movie was supposed to come out first in 2016 instead of Rogue One. I think it was said in either Solo's or Rogue One's Art book that they swapped the releases.

 

I was thinking of the recent leaks where it was said they might superimpose Billie Lourd's face onto Carrie's body, as opposed to strict CGI alteration like Tarkin/young Leia.

So, I did a little test.



Will this pass? I might be willing to accept this one since she is Carrie's daughter, but also because they do have a lot of similarities. Thoughts?

 

^That looks creepy

 

Nah. Lourd really doesn't look that much like her mom.

And weren't the reports the opposite, more like Billie standing in physically for Carrie in long-shots and stuff, some sort of compositing/digital wizardry/whatever of Carrie. That makes more sense to me, being able to set up new shots/positions and stuff with Billie doing the movements. They're not going to take existing Carrie footage and slap Billie's face on her, that's beyond counterproductive.

 

Considering Billie is in the movie as another role, that wouldn't work even if they looked a lot alike. You don't want it to look like Connix is doing a Princess Leia cosplay mid movie

 

I doubt that they'll have Billie Lourd stand-in for Leia. I think most of the fanbase would react negatively to it and so would a lot of the general audience. Personally, I feel that they will use a lot of high-tech behind-the-scenes stuff to make sure that things go smoothly.

 

That deleted scene would have helped as I never saw the dice either. Hope they release versions before I die of deleted scenes in all the film's, well nostof them. I think putting biggs back into anh was one iff GLs best ever moves. Sadly I guess the scene of Luke looking up and and his gang all together on tattooine were just not conpleted enoigh but I'd love to see it ediited in. Wonder if a fan has ever done it in sequence. Loved it in the 'always' video that they included it

 

Interesting. I really would support a "Special Edition" of TFA that adds this quick scene and maybe one or two other things, like a Palpatine reference by Snoke, to help tie this trilogy together. They could make some subtle changes for the edition of the film in the big 9-movie box set that's inevitable in 2020.

 

Given the focus on the dice in TLJ and Solo, I fully expect this one shot to be quietly reinserted into the TFA, but I doubt there will be any other changes.

 

I could see JJ altering Rey's vision slightly to include some kind of tie-in...if her parentage or backstory is being retconned in some way in TROS.

But since this is the Leia thread, I'll just add that I think Billie most likely did serve as the stand-in face model for young Leia in the brief flashback and then they'll use CG to make her look like Leia from ROTJ. Maybe even Billie's voice for a line or two, or Leia dialog lifted/changed from ROTJ. The close up will be brief I bet, like RO, more likely the dialog will be delivered in a wide shot.

I mean, why not use Billie for that, it's the sentimental/respectful decision and just matter-of-factly, they share DNA, so her facial structure will be similar to her mom's making her a good choice for the CG mapping.

 

Billie doesn't look or sound enough like Carrie for them to just digitally augment her face. If she served as a stand-in, they're going to replace her whole head like they did with the stand-in on Rogue One.

 

I wonder if they're using the same voice actress from Star Wars Resistance.

 

I wonder if they're using the same voice actress from Star Wars Resistance.[/QUOTE]

There should be quite a catalogue of tracks of Carrie Fisher's dialogue, either in film and in DVD/Blu-Ray commentary that they can use.

 

Bonus points if they can fit in, “ohhh, I’ve been looking for a red suede pump!” from When Harry Met Sally...

 

J. J. Abrams: “Instead of just having ‘Star Wars’ movies as a reference for this, I also went back and watched some of my favorite films. Obviously ‘Seven Samurai’…some of the John Ford films, because I knew those were also influences that George [Lucas] had.” “[Terrence] Malick [is] not a director you would normally think you’d…go to for a ‘Star Wars’ movie and yet…I don’t know of a more profound and emotional filmmaker than Malick. It sounds very pretentious to say ‘oh I’m inspired by this person, that person’, it’s more about…seeing things that you can aspire to…and where appropriate apply lessons that you’re learning from them.” “There were many scenes where I might have typically wanted to rush the camera around or cut more frequently. But in trying to grow a little bit, and in trying to tell the most powerful story possible, you learn lessons in restraint, you learn lessons in stillness, you learn lessons in confidence and trust in your characters and the audience. And so I found myself working to not just keep things moving as fast as I could, which sometimes has been my default. But rather sometimes to keep things as still as I could, or let things breathe, as a balance to the action, of which there is much in the movie.” “It’s a story that I think gets to see new characters, these underdogs, in a world that is bigger and more spectacular than they could ever imagine and existing characters that some people know and love.” (December 10, 2015) (archive)

J. J. Abrams: “You know, I felt when we started shooting this movie that there were a couple of things that were not quite solved.” “There were some things that we tried that ended up not being in the movie because they didn’t fit or they didn’t deserve to be in the movie. I found that in many cases the less we tried to do, the more powerful what was there was. So in some cases it was more about removing certain things that ultimately ended up being extraneous.” (December 10, 2015)

J. J. Abrams: “I think part of it was efficiency. Learning how to say as much as we can by saying as little as possible, along with clarity of story and character intention. I would say that the greatest lesson/takeaway from working with Lawrence Kasdan, for me, was trusting the story, trusting the material, trusting the characters, not propping everything up [or] dancing so hard to sell a point. Trust that the audience will make the connection and give them room to do so. Larry was always the voice of ‘Say less’ — which is, by the way, a very funny thing because in some recent screenings we’ve had, he is shockingly the one arguing to put some lines of dialogue back in. And I’m always calling him up, saying, ‘How are you, Lawrence Kasdan, asking to put this line of dialogue back in?’ But I always loved when he misses a line.” (December 11, 2015)

J. J. Abrams: “[Steven Spielberg watched The Force Awakens a total of six times (five rough cuts and the finished version) and chipped in with ideas after every screening.]” “[His ideas were to boil the storytelling down to] what’s essential, or what’s efficient.” “[Spielberg taught me] not to work so hard to make a point, but do something that, in a brush-stroke, in a look or a thought, the audience understands what it means.” “[From the very first days of writing Han Solo was] a critical voice, and part of the heart and soul of where this story was going to go.” “[That George Lucas used bogus dialogue during the filming of The Empire Strikes Back and then went back and dubbed in the correct version later on is genius sleight-of-hand.] And that was long before people could tweet something!” (December 20, 2015)

Rey's interactions with Leia suggest she's her mother. It's not about what's said, it's about how they act, it's about what the audience is meant to feel and be impressionistic. And a future dialogue gestalt shift/switch can make it more apparent.

 

Amen. And from an emotional standpoint, that's the best route to take the climax of the Skywalker Saga, in my opinion. Rey is the lost daughter of Han and Leia, and it is revealed in TROS. How? I don't know. That's not my job. But in terms of emotional resonance, impact and cohesion of this 9-part epic, and given what JJ was given to work with, that's the best and narratively neatest choice for him to make.

 

*sigh* I think the evidence is all there as to what the original plan was. As to whether it's been seen all the way through, that's another story

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

Well, hope is like the sun and all that . I'm holding on to hope that JJ sticks to his original plan, until the last possible moment.