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ST Chewie and Leia...The aftermath???

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by BrahmanBob, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Chewie also took the initiative to tell Rey that Finn was the driving force behind the rescue mission. Whatever his motivation for saying that (wanting credit where it was due, correctly or incorrectly guessing that Finn and Rey are starting to develop feelings for each other, etc.), he didn't need to but chose to anyways. So, yeah, him considering Finn a new friend makes sense.

    Well, we did see how Chewie and Leia reacted to Luke and Han's presumed deaths in Empire Strikes Back. As I recall, they seemed to be processing their grief separately without acknowledging the other. So, there is something of a precedent of them not being very huggy or outreaching when grieving. (And for the counterargument that Leia was fine hugging Rey, I think that Leia was mainly doing that for Rey's benefit than her own.)

    For what it's worth, as mentioned earlier, the jr. novelization has an unique scene from Chewie's perspective as he flees Starkiller Base just after setting off the bombs (by the way, it's a great scene that's worth reading the book for). The Wookiee is beyond rage, killing every trooper in his path (even using the claws on the last, despite the fact that Wookiee culture treats that as a sin, of sorts). Getting out, all he wants to do is go back in to have another crack at killing Kylo Ren, despite it being a suicide mission. The main reason he doesn't is that he realizes that Han would want him to save the kids" (exact quote).

    So, the point is, Chewie focusing on getting Finn to the infirmary at the ignorance of all else would be in character; he would be following the wishes of his late friend -- who he owes a life debt to -- (the exact thing he did in Empire Strikes Back) We're also assuming that Chewie is the one being standoffish. For all we know, Leia can't bear to face Chewie just yet, after Han was killed trying to carry out her last request. The nudge she felt in the novelization (from the Force or otherise) could have told her that offering support to this emotionally hurt kid from Jakku was the momentary priority. Who knows? Since you can't really see Leia or Chewie's facial expressions in the film and tie-in materials have yet to explicitly explain everyone's thought process, we can only theorize, and as I see it, there are reasonable theories.
     
    Knights of Ben likes this.
  2. miasma

    miasma Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2013
    It's interesting to see that this is such a big issue for some people, because I honestly didn't give it a moment's thought when I saw the film. It very seemed clear to me that getting medical attention to Finn was more urgent than giving Leia a hug, and I simply assumed that Chewie and Leia consoled each other later, off camera.
    Also, we already saw a great Chewie/Leia hug several scenes earlier, which, for me, was enough to show how much they care for each other, and it was easy to infer from it that they would console each other after Han's death, even if it didn't happen on screen. So I can't agree with people who say TFA crapped on the relationship between Chewie & Leia.
     
    WebLurker likes this.
  3. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    I must have watched a different cut of TESB because I swear I recall Leia and Chewie mutually bonded in grief, and anger, over Han, working together trying to get to him before Boba had the chance to escape. That same effort continued into the top of ROTJ as they joined forces to rescue Han, their first scenes of that film being together. The OT showed that both Leia and Chewie not only loved Han, but have a history of connecting and working together when it comes to him.

    Now we're trying to say the admitted mistake in TFA is a precedent set by TESB? Really?

    I give up.
     
  4. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    I would have thought that by now someone would have edited all the Chewie & Leia scenes from the OT together to provide us with a better picture / understanding of their relationship.

    Alas, all I found on YouTube was THIS:



    [face_beatup]
     
  5. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    Agreed, I didn't even notice the "mistake" until reading about it online.

    My cut of choice is the 2004 DVD version (love having Ian McDiarmid as the holo-Emperor, even if his extra lines are a little hard to get used to). Which is your's?

    It may have been a "mistake," but it made it's way into the final film and clearly happened (so it's not like a boom mike or some thing we know to pretend didn't happen), hence why a lot of us are interested in theorizing why these close friends behaved the way they did.

    I centered on the Hoth scene, since that's the closest analog to the Resistance base scene. In Empire, they were reacting to the belief that Han was dead or going to die, just as they were reacting to he actual death in Force Awakens. In the Cloud City scenes, they were trying to free a captured friend, so I don't see how it's an exact set up. Even then, for what it's worth, they aren't seen breaking down, hugging, or anything when they fail. They just start taking futile potshots at the Slave I with their blasters or, when talked down by Lando, on escaping the city. So, I don't exactly see the relevance, since they were operating under different circumstances and emotions. Even so, they had no problem working close together here despite the fact that they processed their grief at their mutual friends' presumed deaths alone without offering comfort earlier in the movie.

    Look, I don't think anyone's denying that Leia and Chewie were close in the original movies and are in the sequels. I'm not; first time they show up on screen, they hug to great each other (and have clearly no tension) and Leia sees Chewie off on the expedition he's going with Rey and Artoo on. Clearly they are close.

    What I'm disagreeing with is the assessment: "They were close, so they would never have walked by each other without doing anything." Real life humans aren't 100% consistent and have lapses, so can fictional characters. And in this case, they behave in a similar manner as they did the last time this exact same thing occurred. So, I don't see how the "mistake" invalidates anything or contradicts what we know about the characters.
     
  6. Darphus_Mon

    Darphus_Mon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2003
    I probably said this here or somewhere else, I'm surprised no one's entertained the thought that Chewie's peeved at Leia for putting that "bring back our son" idea in Han's head before they left. Wasn't Chewie just a few feet away? Did he hear that conversation? Does he blame Leia? Does anyone notice after he walks past her he just stands there, staring into space?

    When you get the blu-ray, watch Chewbacca during that whole scene. He either:
    A. Is concentrating on making sure Finn I'd taken to the right place (what JJ said)
    B. Is totally out of it and doesn't know what to do with himself. Grief will do that
    C. He's angry with Leia and out of it

    I know everyone's going to start telling me "but JJ said..." A wise man once said, once an author publishes his/her work they cease to be the writer of that work. Then the reader, or in audience in this case, becomes the writer. So I think years from now, once this controversy dies down, people won't see it as such a big deal. It's not such a glaring mistake as people say. Under the circumstances, you can see why there was no hug. I just listed a few...

    not to mention, if the naysayers got what they wanted, how would that work? Chewie and Leia have this long embrace, then Chewie walks away? People would say it wasn't a long enough hug. Han just died! Chewie, Leia and Rey have a group hug? Corny. It's clear JJ wanted the focus to be on the Leia and Rey hug. Nuff said.


    ...Unless you want to keep arguing that Han shot first (how is that still a debate?)
     
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  7. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    But - Han shot first.

    Had Lucas intended otherwise he could have accomplished the necessary VFX already back in 1976.
     
  8. Dagobah Dragonsnake

    Dagobah Dragonsnake Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Actually - all depending on which theatrical version you saw, or release version of dvd you have. In 1977 Han shot first, then later versions, second, and finally after controversy, simultaneously. Lucas intended to keep screwing around with things for various reasons. Just like Luke not screaming as he jumped and fell down the Cloud City shaft, and then screaming, and then not screaming. Who knows, Disney could follow in George's steps and keep changing stuff as they get into various release versions ... God help us if they do.
     
  9. Darth Vain

    Darth Vain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Maybe they have, the BD is advertised as 132 minutes not 135 - O.K perhaps the given cinema runtime of 135 min will be proven slightly inaccurate. Still I'd be all for the deletion of one particular scene related to SKB. JJ could explain it by saying someone had lent him a copy of 'The Universe for Dummies'

    "What!!? It takes over 8 minutes for light from our sun to reach us. You're kidding me..."
     
  10. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004


    Plenty of people in this thread, and a few others, have entertained that (totally absurd) idea.

    Note in all these options you don't once address Leia's side. So how do you explain their her behavior, since you have so many options that seem plausible, to you, from Chewie's end? Even if he did feel one of those ways, why wouldn't we see Leia even glance at Chewbacca?


    That's the heart of why I can't get into all this "theorizing". The mistake was so obvious that, for me, it is akin to watching people craft increasingly elaborate explanations as to what that black, fuzzy thing that quickly appeared, and disappeared, at the top of the frame really is.

    It's not a mistake, it's a new alien! No, it's an ancient light saber whose appearance will be explained in the next film! Wrong, it's Darth Plagueis!
     
  11. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    In regards to the first part (what about Leia's side?):

    From the camera angle, would we be able to see them glance at each other, if that had happened? I had also suggested in a previous post stuff from Leia's perspective: what if she feels guilty about Han's death and doesn't feel comfortable about approaching Chewie at the moment? Maybe she realized (through the Force or otherwise) that reaching out to Rey was the priority at the moment (in A New Hope, Leia does show a tendency to set aside her personal grief if she feels that there are other priorities in the here and now)? Maybe she wanted Finn gotten to the infirmary as soon as possible and thought getting Chewie's attention would delay that? Maybe she wanted to process Han's death alone? (And before someone asks: "Then why go to Rey?", I think it's pretty clear that Leia hugged Rey because she knew that's what Rey needed, not because Leia herself needed it.)

    It's all theory and guesswork, since all we have to go on is what we saw on film,


    (For what it's worth, I don't agree with the "Chewie's angry at Leia" theory, largely since there no canonical evidence to support it and every clue that he doesn't.)

    In regards to your thoughts about the theories (and why you're not a fan):

    Okay, I guess I understand where you're coming from, as far what you think of the nature of the "mistake." I don't agree, but thanks for the insight.

    Where you lose me, though, is calling the explanations for the scene "increasingly elaborate." I'm a long time Star Wars fan and Trekkie, so I know looney tunes fan theories when I hear them (Enterprise takes place in the antimatter universe, Rey is an Anakin Skywalker reincarnation, etc.). This topic doesn't register on my "wacky fan theory meter at all. Suggesting that Leia and Chewie behaved differently than normal while coping with grief (albeit doing something close to what they did when they though Han had died on Hoth in Empire Strikes Back) doesn't seem that wacky an idea; people don't behave consistently at the best of times and can act out of character when in grief. We're not robots, where a set of programming is followed to the letter 100% of the time.


    Could you please explain why the scene is so out-of-character for you that it can only be explained as a continuity error to ignore and why the theories posted on this thread are so preposterous? I don't feel like I have been able to make any headway in understanding your position from re-reading this thread. It makes it hard for me to write meaningful responses to your posts and explaining why I hold the views I do.
     
    Darphus_Mon likes this.
  12. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    if our next film was as safe as TFA i would agree. But i loved TFA. I loved the nostalgia. it was palpable for me. i loved Rey. I want the next film to take more risks, but im happy the way it is for the first one. I will always thank JJ for bringing me that feeling.
     
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