ST Clarification of Ren's knights? It's kind of muddy to me.

Everyone at my RPG table is about to get vaccinated, so we're going to start up our FFG game again, and we're going to try playing in the E7-9 era, probably just after 9, just for something new. But I'm trying to figure out the timeline here for Luke's academy going under.

So luke ties to kill Ben, that's the catalyst for him turning. He kills some students, turns some (forming the Knights of Ren) and then they run around doing bad guy stuff for a couple of years.

Do we have an idea of the window of when that happened? How long were they running around doing bad guy stuff in the meantime?

 

In the current canon, the Knights are a pre-existing gang Ben Solo just bumped into after destroying the temple, they're not Luke's students. There were six years between the burning of Luke's temple and the start of TFA, what they were actually doing in that time is anyone's guess.

 

Why does Ben even need a posse of dudes with melee weapons, in a universe where the Force is a thing that Ben controls, and laser blasters are a thing that almost everyone owns. Oooo...giant useless knives. Scary.

Couldn't Kylo equip them with blasters? Why does he even need a special gang of guys with blasters either? Could the stormtroopers be enough? I'm sure he could have found 6 of them who really liked Vader and thought he was cool or something.

 

You could ask the same question about the Emperor's Royal Guard, or Snoke's Preatorian Guard. They are used to signify the status I would suggest. A ceremonial type of guard. I mean, these guys aren't that practically armed or attired for their particular guard duties.

 

I didn't realize the Pope had force powers lol.

But then again, I wasn't talking about the Emperors ceremonial guard. And you're absolutely right. The Emperor doesn't need the Royal Guard. They're there for ceremonial purposes. A leftover division from the Chancellor days who stand by his door and look pretty. That's why he tells his 'guards' to leave him be. He so doesn't need them to fight.

When Kylo gives Snoke the wrong look, this P-guard spring to action to defend the 9 foot tall Force powered Alien who's throwing down lightning and can toss Kylo across the room in a second. They also seem very much aware he's total dark sider user. They too have melee weapons for some reason. That would suggest they're not ceremonial at all. But are used to defend the SL. And considering they are tougher to beat than Snoke was, it's a little weird. But you know...fine. They're just ceremonial too. I'm cool with that.

But I'm talking about Kylo's KOr. It's weird -and lame - for Kylo to want/need melee experts to look tough, and send them on missions for him to get stuff done. Or maybe to protect him. That means that they're not ceremonial in nature. They're are a special ops unit that he uses when he needs something done.

They could have used the KOR in a cool way. But didn't. They didn't give them Force Powers. Lame. But ok, whatever. That's ... fine. And then on top of that they gave them over-designed knives and axes in a galaxy with ray guns, and turned them into Kylo's gang, but also made Kylo kind of subservient to them, because he needs to keep their respect. Kylo, who thinks his father is weak because he doesn't have the Force! Or that Rey is just a scavenger. Why would Kylo of all people need their respect? Or even want to use them in the first place?

And then on top of that they basically have one fight scene, where Ben shoots them with a blaster! Good thing they didn't any right? That is, until it magically disappears so that he can get his but kicked in until Rey faxes him a saber.

 

The last one certainly did



But back on topic. I guess Rian Johnson didn't really have room for them in his instalment. If Abrams had done all three, I suspect that they would have played a larger role. I thought that they were going to be Luke's ex-students in all honesty.

I so want them as a Black Series figure box set however, particularly Ap'lek

 

Ill give ya that one lol

 

It goes back to that frustrating missed opportunity doesn't it really? I mean, the Knights of Ren were about the most original thing the sequel trilogy managed to produce, and nothing was done with them. I would have been really happy with a trilogy based around a rogue ex-student of Luke's and his little band of vicious insurgents taking on the Republic.

 

Well actually, two of them exclusively carried guns, they just don't ever fire them at any point so they're even more useless than the melee goons. Seriously, LF couldn't have made these guys any more pathetic if they tried.

 

Really dropped the ball with these guys. The brief Force vision of them in TFA was great, was really looking forward to seeing them in action. When Han says that Ben left with a handful of students, it stood to reason that it was this bunch, otherwise what happened to the students, and where did these guys come from? Should have given them the blue and green sabers they trained with, but made them villains, with Kylo leading the way with his red proto-saber. Even with Snoke killed in Episode 8, they could have been the Big Bad in Episode 9, instead of falling back on Darth Sidious and planet-killing superweapons.

 

Apparently the Knights of Ren, while Force sensitive, are not Luke's students. They have had various incarnations over centuries causing trouble in the Unknown Regions, and had fallen into Kylo's control after he killed their previous 'Ren' leader.

I was disappointed like everyone else with what happened with them in the ST, but The Mandalorian has me feeling a little better about LFL's attempts to fill out the New Republic era. I have no doubt the Knights were really active during the 1 year period between TLJ and TROS since sup. material says Ren sent them to hunt the Resistance trio during that time.

 

Anyone who likes the knights should read the rise of kylo ren comic, there's lots of them in that.

 

The Vatican City Guard are actually quite well trained in enhanced modern security. And while they sometimes wear traditional uniforms while holding holding mostly ceremonial weapons they are proficient in unarmed combat and with modern weapons - which are never far away. Maybe not so close as the guard booth for these very publicly placed guards, but they wouldn’t be too far. And these guards will rotate out of these more ceremonial positions with other guards for more modern security detail.

They are very Star Wars.

That back story can’t get retconned away fast enough for me. So much more interesting if Knights of Ren are Luke’s students.

I was looking forward to that story too. Maybe we can still see that some day on a TV show or in another movie.

Personally I’d like the event with Luke in Ben’s hut to have happened. Before Ben really understands what is going on or has completely dig himself out of the ruble the six students who are the Knights of Ren take this as the signal to attack and destroy the temple.

 

I'm pretty certain the Non Force User Pope's Vatican Guard could defeat the Knights of Ren.

They are useless no matter what galaxy they are in.

 

that sound you hear is the ball dropped on the Knights of Ren. One of the coolest ST ideas.

 

I like the idea, but they were sadly underused.

 

I suspect that if JJ Abrams had got the gig to do all three of the sequel movies, the Knights of Ren may have featured more prominently. As it were, Rian seemingly had no room for them in his story. Subsequently they had to be little more than fleeting table decoration in the overly busy story that was Episode 9.

 

The ST has a lot of cool ideas that need expanding on like the Sith Eternal, the strand-casts, what the current criminal underworld looks like, the stormtroopers defecting, and obviously, the Knights of Ren.

 

Rewatching TROS, I get the sense that simply having more time to develop the movie could’ve given us a much better outing for the Knights. It’s in the context of the movie that their original role as mercenaries takes on a more interesting dimension. Once they ally with the Sith loyalists, the Knights become the new embodiment of the Sith.

We see Kylo Ren’s helmet being reforged by a Sith loyalist, and so presumably was the gear of the other knights. I know the expanded material has a different take on all this, but the movie itself makes it seem like they kick into action after visiting Exegol. And their first task is to track the last Jedi, which is appropriate for the Sith. But unfortunately we don’t get to see much of them, and they still seemed underused.

I’m not saying they literally became Sith, just that they were enhanced and made closer in their image. It could’ve been cool if we’d seen some of their gear enhance their dark-side abilities, or seen them in command hunter-killer squadrons from the First Order, or just generally seen them have a better display of their dark-side power than what’s just implied or the brief display in their final battle with Ben Solo.

 

I wonder bikes much of the comics would end up getting retconned, since the movies and shows take precedence?

I also wonder if 'Ren', the previous Master of the Knights, was Snoke's first apprentice before Ben?

 

I always though "Knights of Ren" sounds like a particular kind of Star Wars Youtube channel.

 

I see them in the same way that the bounty hunters were in the OT.

The main difference is that we had decades of expanded universe material to flesh out their characters and back stories. Give it 20-40 years, we might end up with a "Book of Ren" TV series.

 

That is exactly my opinion too. Not sure what great cool new idea the Knights of Ren ever were. They are background characters in unique costumes. Nothing more. Star Wars has always done this. The Bounty Hunters in the OT are perfect example. They stand around and do nothing. We knew their names only because it was listed on the packaging of the action figures.

 

That's the thing though. The knights aren't said or shown to be hired hands for one situation. Kylo is the leader of the knights or ren, as said by Snoke. We see a visual of them standing with him. They have prominence to this particular character's story, but they have nothing happening with them, as a story or character, mostly.