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ST C'mon, Let's Keep a Little Optimism Here - The Gusher's Sanctuary

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Chiznuk , Dec 6, 2019.

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  1. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I think there's a vital distinction to be made about what makes the victory on Exegol just as significant, if not moreso than the battle of Endor. In the case of Endor, it's the Rebel Alliance that saves the galaxy, but on Exegol, it's the galaxy that saves the galaxy.
     
  2. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    On Endor the Ewoks taking over and the Emperor’s fall always felt like two things that I felt could be improved upon in IX with Sidious back as a revised end point.

    IMO, IX did so and also made what Palpatine was saying in ROTJ to Luke to strike him down make more literal sense and felt like a more epic end for him with more Sith lore involved. All of which seemed better and more fitting for a character of his magnitude after the prequels made me find him more interesting overall. When ROTJ was finished the Emperor hadn’t been fleshed out as much as he later was in the prequels. After the prequels and seeing him take out Yoda I felt like I wanted to see a more epic end for him. IX gave me that.

    IX making him the one scheming from the shadows all along and embodying his infamous “The darkside is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural” line really work for me.

    I really do see it as an ending upgrade for me. I can still enjoy ROTJ for what it is but for me the main draw was always Vader/Luke/Leia/Han/Lando anyway and all of that still works for me but now it plays more like the second last season finale of an amazing TV miniseries with the ST delivering the final statement on the houses of Palpatine vs Skywalker and Anakin joining Palpatine and Rey joining Skywkalker. I love how it all comes together. It adds a whole new layer to it all while still exploring all of the themes I find interesting and in many cases exploring them in different ways. The Rey & Ben dynamic is also something fresh for the saga and I like how it is the mirror end of Anakin wanting to save Padme and turning to the dark side to to so.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  3. Cave of Erised

    Cave of Erised Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 3, 2018
    To tie it to TLJ, I like to think that the galaxy was inspired by what happened on Crait with Luke (like the little kids shown at the ending) and that’s how Lando was able to get everybody to show up.
     
  4. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    A few points the viewing I had today helped me to understand...

    First, Palpatine's body is a result of Dark Side alchemy and Cloning. So, probably they had his DNA or something stored, thus that body is probably not the same as the one from DS2.

    Second, D-O's role is that Finn discovers through him that Ochi was tasked to bring a girl from Jakku to the Emperor, and this is when Poe and Finn figure out that Palpatine was trying to find Rey since she was a child, and probably they can infer that Rey is related to Palpatine.

    Finally, as soon as Kylo is destroyed and becomes Ben Solo, the very next scene is of Palpatine having a call with Allegiant General Pryde to instruct him to lure the Resistance and Rey to him.

    So, it seems like Palpatine's initial plan was to possess/control Kylo Ren, and as soon as Kylo was turned to the light side, he switches plans and focus on bringing Rey before him so his spirit can possess her. So this explains why he wanted to kill her first, then changed his mind and wanted to lure her to him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  5. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 26, 2009
    I think the other thing that makes TROS feel like a bigger ending than ROTJ is that it climaxes in a place of true evil. Exegol is a home of the Sith, as opposed to another occupied world in need of liberating like Endor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  6. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    @Ricardo Funes : The close up on the broken hands with all of the stictch marks on Palpatine are what lead me to believe he’s a Frankenstein mess. With some aspects like his hands perhaps his original body parts stitched together and other aspects cloned and rebuilt entirely. My guess is that they wished to persevere as much of the original form of him as could possibly be done to help the essence process.
     
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  7. rocknroll41

    rocknroll41 Jedi Master star 3

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    May 28, 2013
    Oh yeah that’s a good point. Makes me think that when Poe was talking to Zorri and mentioning how no one answered their call on Crait, maybe she coulda said something like “word has gotten around since then about how Skywalker saved you guys. His sacrifice inspired people.” And then maybe when Poe told Lando later to go around the galaxy and try to gather people he coulda said something like “people will come now, like Luke came to us on Crait.”

    On topic, I finally got a chance to see the movie again today. Liked it even better this time! The scene with the dagger lining up with the Death Star ruins actually works for me now!
     
  8. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Agreed, this idea sort of goes back to Lucas' original idea and concept art for the end of ROTJ in which Luke faces the Emperor and Vader not on a Death Star but at the Emperor's dark lair filled with lava and fire.

    Obviously JJ went with an icy environment, but the feel of it is the same. It's not imperial, its the home of pure evil where Rey has to face Palps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  9. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I love that we got to go to both the ancient birthplace of the Jedi and see the first written texts and also got to see the Sith world of Exogul in this.
     
  10. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Also, can we talk about how amazing the whole throne arena scenario is? Even the background, with those streaks carved on the stone behind the throne and all.... very high fantasy stuff here, very imaginative.

    I cannot wait until the Bluray is out and we can start posting images, there are so many epic scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  11. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Casualty / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    The sound effect of the lightning on Exegol is so wizard.
     
  12. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    This may be due to having seen the ST, or never really experiencing ROTJ as the 'end', but I noticed in my rewatch that it seems to end pretty quickly after the DS2 is destroyed (even with the additions in the celebration montage). That, and the last line is: "He's my brother." It feels, as you said, akin to the end of a season. I'm really glad TROS has the Tatooine scene at the end, because it gives a greater sense of finality.
    I think the Resistance may have gained some people because of Luke's actions, e.g. Dominic Monaghan's character.
     
  13. jeangreyforever

    jeangreyforever Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Sorry, I made a mistake with that post. I love this film a lot but I didn't like some of what Chris Terrio had to say which was totally at odds with this film and the rest of the saga so I wanted to address that. But I shouldn't have responded to that in this thread.
     
  14. MarcJordan

    MarcJordan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2014
    I salute you for continuing to look at the heart and inner working of TROS which is (so clear to me but in a way I could not express) how the Saga had to conclude.

    JJ Abrams and Chris did do their best to make it fit. The STORY as a whole really works for me anyway. That’s all that matters :D

    Cheers!

    MJ
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  15. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Another aspect that was really fun about the prequels was having multiple villains to kill along the way. I like that Snoke becomes the ST’s Dooku.
     
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  16. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    I do love the overall story of TROS and, I agree, it does make a fitting end to the 9-part saga. However, on a technical level I do have a few problems with it as a film. I think it may be Abrams' weakest film yet as a director. I just don't know for the life of me why he chose to butcher it as much as he did in the editing suite. And the thing is, it is to the detriment of the film as a whole. I mean, I can't forgive that first twenty minutes or so. It’s so fast paced and we are literally given so much important information in such a short space of time, with no time to breathe. It’s brutal. Palpatine is bloody introduced in the first two minutes, for crying out loud! I wasn't expecting that. It’s just too much, too quickly. Honestly, the first twenty minutes almost felt like a Michael Bay film. Almost. I was getting slight Transformers 2 vibes.

    Having said all that, I did like it, and I put it above the PT (I do like them, too). I've only seen it once, mind you. I am hoping to rectify that soon. After I watched it, I left the cinema feeling pretty much the same as I did after I saw ROTS for the first time. That film grew on me, too, and its now my favourite of the PT.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  17. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    The choice to get to Palpatine early makes sense for a couple reasons that relate primarily to the trilogy on a marathon watch later on. The Palpatine reveal ideally would have been the cliffhanger moment of VIII. It wasn’t. So, positioning it right off the top, right after the scroll, helps to give the feeing of the second act of VIII being extended slightly here. Things were bad for our heroes. They are about to get worse. Similarly, I think it helps to get right to the necessary suspension of disbelief regarding him. Audiences have paid their money to suspend disbelief and accept what’s thrown at them most right off the top in all forms of film. At the beginning of a musical it’s important to get into that musical number quick so that it feels less jarring later. If your film has a unique comedic voice or style you want to let the audience know early that this is how things are going to be. What it loses off the top in convention it makes up on repeat and marathon watches later because structurally it’s coming at you at a point in the narrative so close to the start of the final film that it could have just as easily been the end of the middle film. Once it’s out of the way it feels like you are beginning IX properly.

    I do think there’s a sense that this film was likely 2hrs and 45 min or more at one point and written that way and that a mandate for box office screenings or something else drove massive edits to the detriment of what should have been a longer and better paced film. Having said that, I think the economy of the editing is fairly impressive. While the new details are flying at you so fast that you are likely to miss many on first watch... the second watch shows that there were things set up better than initially realized.

    Switching gears entirely from what you said I just wanted to say that it’s a real shame that Boyega fanned the flames of division by design tonight. The films clearly aimed to separate Ben from Kylo Ren more and he really should have just stayed out of it. He seemingly wasn’t addressing racism directly or anything of that kind. Seemed he was mostly mad at some Reylos being annoying and trolled them. Elijah Wood commented on his press tour earlier and tonight it seems Boyega went further. It will help him with some and frustrate others.

    That said, the melodrama of Star Wars isn’t new. I’ve seen sarcastic “family” takes that then show violence between Vader, Leia and Luke and/or sarcastic romance memes related to Anakin choking Padme and killing kids shortly after learning he’s going to be a father. I’ve seen joke memes about how fast Luke got over his aunt and uncle who raised him burned to death. Star Wars is pretty messed up a lot of the time and Ben & Rey’s relationship adds to it all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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  18. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    Largest improvement, by far, is how the pacing becomes so easy to follow on the second viewing. I highly recommend another viewing if you can.
     
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  19. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    When the ancient Jedi texts call out to Rey now there’s additional meaning knowing that they will lead her to the way finders and to her grandfather, Palpatine.

    I love what JJ & Terrio did with the texts. I wanted them to be revisited around some form of relic or lore and they did it.
     
  20. BadAcrobat

    BadAcrobat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    "Apology accepted, Captain jeangreyforever"
     
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  21. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

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    May 19, 2002
    What planets are seen at the end when the other destroyers are being destroyed? Is one a shot of Coruscant? Or was that Bespin? It kind of looked like the senate building but it might have been Bespin. I’m just going off memory and was so overwhelmed I didn’t really stop to look. The others being Endor and Jakku.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  22. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I wish to all my gusher friends a great 2020, hopefully with good news about upcoming Star Wars film and TV projects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    That was Cloud City on Bespin.
     
  24. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    It's a bit of an odd mix of planets. I guess Endor, Bespin, and Tattooine were meant to represent one planet per OT episode, but since it ends with Tattooine, they went with Jakku in its place. I really enjoyed seeing an Ewok at the end. The whole movie was full of nostalgia-logic like this, and as an ending to the saga, it's perfect. JJ said it's a love letter to Star Wars, and I could tell it was the first time I saw it.

    Also, isn't lightspeed skipping the most absurd concept, but also the most Star Wars thing in any of the films? This movie is the most Star Wars of Star Wars movies.

    *leaves gush-puddle*
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  25. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

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    May 19, 2002
    One of the nice things on rewatches is how everything builds to the end. All of the relic hunting and discoveries leads places. The crew is mostly together until the end. Everyone eventually sees Exogul as the final stand and makes their way there and at Exogul we get this unique ship yards battle where ships remain dangerous but aren’t yet in space. Once the fantasy relic hunt logistics and specifics have been worked out by the audience it’s a very straight forward road trip into the hellish world of the Sith for a final stand and some of the big character moments.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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