SWC19 Constructive Criticism & Suggestions for Improvements for 2019

so, if you don't get into the room for the Episode IX panel, are the overflow rooms plentiful and easy enough to get into? Or, is that a long line as well. Thinking I might be ok just being in the overflow room.

 

Well, we don't know where they will be or how big they are going to be. Looking at the floor plans for the west building doesn't give an obvious location. The main overflow theater in Orlando held about 2,600. The overflow rooms capped before midnight in Orlando for the overnights, but that's partly because the main room only held 4,500 or so. My hunch is you'll still need to be pretty early for Chicago, but it's hard to say at this point. Everyone on this board badly underestimated what the crowd would be in Orlando. The consensus was you could likely show up at 5 am and still have a good shot at the main room. We were way off.

With the bigger arena, will people feel safer coming later or will people remember the chaos in Orlando and come even earlier? My hunch is the latter, but I'd like to be able to at least walk the floor for a couple hours on Thursday.

There's also going to be a lot of first timers in Chicago I think and I don't know how to guess what they will do. It's all just guess work until around March when we learn what exactly the procedure will be. I'm kind of rooting for some brutal weather during the day to discourage people from lining up outside.

 

This is pretty much where I'm at as well. The size of the arena suggests you should be ok arriving in the early hours of the morning (like at Anaheim) but there will almost certainly be people getting there earlier than ever due to last year's issues.

I don't care about being really so hopefully I'll be able to get some show floor time on Thursday, a shower, and then join the line up and still make it into the room. If I want front and centre I can watch the live stream at home, I just want the atmosphere of being in the room.

 

That was my situation for Anaheim and I was OK with being in an overflow room. Orlando was a different story - people were lined up outside of the building overnight, something Anaheim didn't allow, and so anybody who got there bright and early at 6am didn't stand a chance. I was leaving there the night before and the line already snaked around the building - something I would really not like to see again.

 

Yeah, they need to leave entry open all night rather than lock up at midnight, that way as people arrive they can clear security and get in line rather than it all building up outside and creating chaos when the doors finally open.

They did this in London, and I'm pretty sure Anaheim too, and it worked much better than what was reported from Orlando. That said, I think it's been said that closing the doors at midnight was down to the convention centre not ReedPOP so hopefully that won't happen in Chicago.

 

I'm sorry to say, brutal weather will not slow down Midwestern folks. Standing out in the cold is what we do. And my theory on ticket/hotel sellouts and early line-ups written above is, the influx of "newbies" jumping on the bandwagon making sure they don't miss the show. I really don't know the answer on how to improve people lining up for popular panels and so forth but whoever solves that debacle will be a millionaire thrice over. Each convention center has its own set of problems. Once 2019 arrives, I'm sure a different set of situations will occur that was never thought of.
Are ReedPOP's hands tied when the fire marshal is involved? Then, I'd suggest posting the capacity of people for 5 - day ticket holders if that's doable to reduce the numbers waiting in line. It's not a fix-all but where do you start? But I believe it's better than waiting in line at 1:00 AM and not getting a seat in end.

 

^ Yeah, there's not really a great solution. It's really our fault as fans for being so dedicated. The best you can hope for is they bring in more volunteers to manage the line, cut down on cutters and make sure those who were there first get in first. I'm not real optimistic, but I think part of the issue with Orlando was everyone was caught off guard with the number of people camping. This time you've got two years to prepare for what you know will be a massive crowd. Prepare to deal with it ReedPop. I just want the line to be fair. If I get beaten out by fans willing to wait in line longer than I am, I'll tip my hat to them because I'm willing to wait a pretty long time.

 

Someone said, that ReedPop bares part of the responsibility for the overnight lines because they make it into an event in itself by bringing pizza and celebs coming to say hi, sign autographs or whatever and then that DJ in the middle of the night.
And I must say, that i agree with that. If ReedPop stopped that, then the incitement to do overnight lines might lessen. I know it will not disappear, but if it could just get to a point where people can line up in the early hours of the morning and get in to the main room, then much would be better. To have to sleep on a concrete floor to get in to a panel is... well, I don't wanna say stupid, but that is really the word, that pops into mind putting it mildly.

 

I think the impact of that is pretty negligible. I think the vast majority of people if given the option of waiting all night to get pizza and see JJ vs show up a couple hours before in the morning assured of getting in would choose the latter. The latter doesn't seem to be an option though.

 

The problem is Orlando created a panic. In Anaheim (due to the size of the arena), people were arriving after 6am and still managing to get into the main room for TFA. In London (due to European events being smaller scale and again a decent room size) you could arrive after 6am and still get in the main room for RO.

In Orlando the 40th capped by 10/10:30pm I think, and the next day TLJ was capped by 8pm. The smaller room size, combined with the fact more people showed up early, meant the live room reached capacity a lot faster than expected on the first night, which created a panic and reaching capacity even earlier on the second night.

Because of what happened in Orlando, in some ways it doesn't matter that Chicago has a bigger arena because a lot of people will show up even earlier because they don't want to take the chance.

What proportion of people that is and how quick they will reach capacity is another matter. Even with the 10k arena I can't see you being able to walk up at 6am and get in anymore. But I'd hope it wouldn't reach live capacity anywhere near as early as Orlando did either.

I think for the first (IX) over night we'll see a lot of people get there earlier than needed. Once we know what time that live capacity is reached, if there's a second over night (maybe for Kenobi or live action series) then it's possible it will be less frantic as people realize that capacity isn't reached as quickly in Chicago.

 

I wonder though, if there are a large number of first timers (like myself) as speculated here, maybe many of them won't really know what to do and you'll have a core of those that go every time that will line up extremely early. But, the newbies that don't frequent sites like this might think they can just show up whenever and get in. I just don't know, to be honest. I think you're probably right, but would it be out of the realm of possibility that it does take longer to cap based on the large room size and a higher percentage of first timers?

 

First timers are a bit unpredictable, but I think with how fast tickets sold, it is probably an indicator that this will be like Orlando or trying to get in Hall H at SDCC. The extra capacity may take a little longer for it to cap, but if it is a similar system, then I fully expect it to cap sometime before midnight. I just can't see a scenario where you show up 2-3 hours early in the morning and get in.

I also think IX will probably be the only panel that is super chaotic to get into.

 

Depends on if they do a new films/TPM panel. A TPM panel where they have Ewan and discuss an upcoming kenobi film could be huge too. Even if they don't discuss Kenobi, I still think that could be massive. Just depends on the programming for the weekend.

 

According to Collider, the spin off films (including Kenobi) are being put on hold, so that would probably hamper anything significant at Celebration.

 

The “first in line-ers” started the panic in Orlando due to a lot of regulars at Anaheim realizing they couldn’t get into their favorite panels anymore even if it’s not the main one unless they lined up early (Battlefront panel and ROTS screening being two that were a problem). Once regulars and newbies who kept up with what happened in Anaheim heard that that group were in line on Tuesday for a Thursday panel and RP and security didn’t seem to want to stop the line from not forming till 8, people started to panic. The more the line grew and the more reports that they will honor the line formed prior to 8pm came out, the more people showed up. If no one had lined up that early or if that had been nipped early and those fans had been sent back, people would have started to show up a few hours before 8 maybe and most people would have slowly made their way in the early morning. That is the first and main cause of the overnight line issue at Orlando. Because of that, they weren’t ready for the demand (vending machines becoming low with no concessions, no clear procedure in how to deal with that many people and letting the 6am groups in during wristbands).

And now that we know what can happen, it’s going to be a while before things go back to a normal level, though I doubt it will ever go back

 

To be fair I wasn't expecting much past a "Future Filmmakers" panel for anything past IX. So now the main focus of that just shifts from Kenobi to Rian Johnson's trilogy, maybe a hints at GoT guys' series as well. Certainly don't expect anything beyond some minor hints and teases. maybe a couple of pieces of concept art if we're really lucky.

 

Hmmmmm, it will the 20th anniversary of The Phantom Menace. I'd love lots of programming for that. That would make it a priority for Ray Park as a guest. But I'd also love to see lots of technical guests: effects, sound, music, puppetry, CGI. A lot of the tech they developed for TPM immediately went into other films.

 

I arrived Wednesday afternoon in Orlando, and immediately headed over to the Convention center to pick my stuff up. I was considering "camping out" (for a third time)--but after going and seeing the line of about 700 people already lined up, I forgot about it. I had heard, however, that the first people in line had been sitting there from early in the morning on that day, ready to go in...and I hope they did.

My camping out days are over--even though doing so was fun during Indianapolis and C5 (Orlando) was fun.

 

I loved camping out at Indy, although I was REALLY happy when they moved us all in to a hotel lobby in the middle of the night due to the weather. At least someone took pity on us! I will probably camp out for the IX panel and maybe the "other" big one (depending on what it is). As it seems I will probably be there solo, it just means I need to make use of my time wisely and make friends near me for bathroom/food runs. Nothing longer than 15-30 mins of course. And remember a phone charger!! Pray to the Maker you don't forget something like that!

 

I arrived in the Indy line at 11:45 as I was advised to do, I was given the number 77 in line. After I woke up earlier, I heard the tornado sirens going off, the rain pelting the window and thunder outside! I got up, got ready, went down stairs found housekeeping(Marriott hotel) and made a rain suit out of large trash bags! I braved the foul weather, made friends and will never regret it! but Chicago is another camp out matter- safety.

 

Recent discussions about NYCC and their panel queue plans reminded me of something I've been meaning to post here for a while - a more detailed look at what possible options they could employ for next year's Celebration.

Before doing that there's two very important things to keep in mind;

1 - The over night queue is very likely only for one panel, maybe two. And out of the four over night line ups since 2015, only two have reach capacity before 6am - those at Orlando last year which had a smaller main stage than both Anaheim and London. With the Wintrust arena seating approximately 10,000 people the only panels likely to reach full capacity over night are Episode IX and maybe the live action series if they premiere the pilot at Celebration.

2 - You will never please everyone. There is no solution that everyone will agree is fair or the best option. Supply and demand dictates that not everyone who wants to be in the room can get in. There is no real solution, ReedPop are simply looking for the least worst option.

Ok, so the two models we know are at least on their minds;

Wristbands
As used at SWCE 2016 and SWCO 2017
Wristbands distributed at 6am, ahead of floor opening at 10am. Guests may get up to 2 wristbands per day. Once they have wristbands guests can they queue for the show floor or panel seating (depending on time of panel).
You can queue for other panels if capacity is still available
For those choosing to queue over night, the line (officially) starts at 8pm the night before, the doors may or may not be closed during the night depending on the venue (for London they weren't, for Orlando they were).
Pros
Effectively queuing for 2 panels at once before the show opens
Getting wristbands before the show opens means less queuing during the show. You know you have a seat so any extra queuing for the panel is only to determine where you sit
Avoids people wasting their day queuing for a panel they don't get in to
Worked well in London where crowd was smaller/room was bigger
First come, first served
You have control - you can decide if you want to join the line/if you want to see the panel that much
Doors being open all night in London allowed line to build up naturally and avoided the bottle neck that Orlando had on the first morning
Cons
Not really suitable for families with young children
Not really suitable for those with medical badges (provisions were in place for medical badges but weren't really good enough)
Queue jumpers/saving places for people who haven't queued
People line up ahead of official time - and competing line in Orlando (not well dealt with)
Doing over nights back to back in Orlando - over night after show has started means people must choose between the event and the line for the next day's main event
Line not well organised in Orlando, especially on first night
Closing doors after midnight created a massive line outside overnight and a security bottle neck in the morning in Orlando (not an issue in London where doors stayed open)

50% Lottery
Used at NYCC
50% of spaces are done via pre-show online lottery held about a month and a half before the event, entry open for a week and a half
If you win the lottery your panel admission will be loaded onto your badge
You prioritise your entries and can enter for up to 4 people (all linked to their badges)
If you don't win the lottery you can queue in the queue hall, again panel access will be loaded to your badge - this doesn't sound any different to wristbands except for the use of RFID badges and there's no official over night line (but then there's no SDCC Hall H or SWC TFA/TLJ/IX level panels either)
Would have to limit to 2 panel wins per day like with wristbands
Pros
Lottery winners won't have to line up overnight or in the mornings for wristbands
In theory reduces the number of people queuing for wristbands
Easier for families and those with medical conditions
Avoids people wasting their day queuing for a panel they don't get in to
Cons
Celebration did not have a pre-registration, so even if the badges do have RFID, panel access couldn't be linked to individual badges until guests arrived on site. So this would most likely be a separate ticket/pass
Because it's not linked to your badge at the time of winning it's open to abuse as lottery winners could effectively sell panel access
By making 50% of capacity lottery they risk another Florida style surge of over night queuers as they are now completing for fewer spaces so more people likely to arrive even earlier as they know half the spaces are already filled
Still has all the cons of wristbands for the remaining 50% of spaces

So what are the other options?

IN ADVANCE

100% Lottery
Similar to the NYCC lottery but for all the seats rather than just 50%
Would have to limit to 2 panel wins per day like with wristbands
Pros
Eliminates the need to have any over night line up or wristbanding ahead of show opening
Easier for families and those with medical conditions
Avoids people wasting their day queuing for a panel they don't get in to
You know which panels you're going to in advance and can plan your convention around them
Cons
Celebration did not have pre-registration, so even if they add RFID the lottery win would likely have to be added to your badge on site
Because it's not linked to your badge it's open to abuse as lottery winners could effectively sell panel access
Many fans are against a lottery because it eliminates all control, you can't decide how much a panel is worth to you and queue accordingly. Many people travelling from around the world are happy to do the queuing knowing it guarantees them the ability to be in the room, a lottery takes that control away from them.
If you don't win the lottery you may not see any main stage panels (depending on if they did a lottery just for the Celebration stage or for all panels on the main stages)

100% Pre-Registration for Major Panels
Rather than a lottery fans can pre-register for seats at the major panels of the weekends (so IX, Resistance, Live Action Series, etc)
Other panels would still use a wristband type system in the mornings
Limit of 2 panels per day same as wristbands
Pros
Eliminates the need for an over night line
Easier for families and those with medical conditions
Avoids people wasting their day queuing for a panel they don't get in to
Cons
Wristband or some other system still needed for other panels
Not fair - if you can't be online the moment they go up you'd miss out
Likely go as fast as VIP tickets and come down to pure luck
Again - not linked to badges means it would be open to abuse of re-selling panel access

Jedi Knight Pass
Basically a panel pass. This is in addition to your regular badge. Maybe a 1000 available (roughly 10% Celebration Stage capacity), gives you guaranteed seating at all Celebration Stage panels, like the VIPs get but none of the other perks (maybe it lets you use the VIP entrance after 10am so you are guaranteed to make the first panel if the queue is like Orlando's Thursday queue?)
Pros
Great for those who get it
Cons
I hate the idea of charging for panel access
Could be tricky to manage logistically - same queue as VIPs or separate queue (so more staff needed, another queue to let in, more potential for error), do they offer single day versions or just 4 day (unfair on those only going for a few days, could lead to people only using them on one day or even for one panel which would create a lot of unused but sold seats that they couldn't account for until everyone had been let into the arena)
Still needs another system in place for everyone else

Individual Panel Sales for Major Panels
Basically pre-registration but you have to pay for panel access. Again, just for the major panels of the weekend.
Pros
Eliminates the need for an over night line
Easier for families and those with medical conditions
Avoids people wasting their day queuing for a panel they don't get in to
May lead to tickets being available for more than a few seconds when they go on sale
Hopefully lead to less abuse than lottery/pre-reg as people will have had to pay for access rather than just making a profit on something they got free (not naive, these would still be sold for profit)
Cons
I hate the idea of charging for panel access, especially as this wouldn't just be for guaranteed access like a Jedi Knight pass, this would be required for every seat in the room
Wristband or some other system still needed for other panels
Not fair - if you can't be online the moment they go up you'd miss out
Not fair - prices out people who have already paid a lot of money to be there
Not linked to badges means it would be open to abuse of re-selling panel access

MIX OF ADVANCE AND AT CELEBRATION

50% Pre-Registration for Major Panels
As above but 50% pre-register and 50% on the day (like NYCC lottery)
Pros
Those that get a pre-registered seat won't need to queue over night
In theory reduces the number of people queuing for wristbands
Easier for families and those with medical conditions
By only doing 50% pre-register you still give a chance to those who can't be online the moment seating opens up
Avoids people wasting their day queuing for a panel they don't get in to
Cons
No longer eliminates the over night line
Online seats would go even faster and by making 50% of capacity pre-registered they risk another Florida style surge of over night queuers as they are now completing for fewer spaces so more people likely to arrive even earlier as they know half the spaces are already filled
Still has all the cons of wristbands for the remaining 50% of spaces
Not linked to badges means it would be open to abuse of re-selling panel access

AT CELEBRATION

Once you get on site there's less options. Really there's just queue in advance (over night/early morning) or queue individually before each panel. You can try and come up with variations on how the queue is done but really those are your options.

Individual Panel Queues
Nice and simple, just show up ahead of your panel and queue for it.
Pros
No need for wristbands, registrations or lotteries
Fair to everyone
Cons
Won't eliminate the over night line up for major panels
Individual panel queues eat into your day at Celebration and reduces time to see/do other things
Being in the queue doesn't guarantee you entry to the panel, could spend hours of your day queuing and then not get into the panel (at least if don't get a wristband your queue time was wasted pre-Celebration not during it)
Long queues for all the main panels is why wristbands were introduced in the first place - unlikely to go back to something that wasn't working, especially now crowds are so much larger


Tweaking Current System
If they don't go to some form of lottery/pre-registration (or even if they do a 50% lottery like NYCC) then there will need to be some system in place. Whether they go with wristbands or implement some form of RFID (easier to do on site once individuals have badges rather than trying to retroactively link all badges to names since they didn't do an NYCC style pre-registration) doesn't really make much difference, you're still queuing up ahead of show opening for a guaranteed panel seat.


I've already gone over the pros and cons of the wristband system above, so this is just some thoughts on possible improvements they could make to that specific system.

Allow people with medical sticker to collect their wristbands the night before/at show closing each day for themselves and 1 companion. Previously the companion was able to get two wristbands after queuing over night as long as they had their own badge and the badge with the medical sticker. But this is no good for people who need their companion to help them get ready in the mornings. I did think about having medical wristband pick up at a later time on the day (say 8am rather than 6am) but by doing it the night before it eliminates any need for those with medical conditions to be there early and allows ReedPop to know how many wristbands they used for medical badges so they know exactly how many they have to give at out 6am the following morning rather than guessing at an allocation.

Allow a designated remainer for families during any over night queue. All family members must join the line between 8pm (or whenever it unofficially begins) and a specific time (let's say 10pm for now) when an official count will be done. One adult and all children may then leave the line and return to their hotel for the night, the remaining adult(s) will have their badge marked (maybe a family sticker or something like that) denoting how many extra wristbands they are eligible for. I appreciate this doesn't work for single parents travelling alone with children and no partner or additional adults. I can't think of a way to make that work and I'm sorry for that. I know this isn't perfect, but I honestly think it would be a big improvement for families with children. Families arriving after the cut off time would be at ReedPop's discretion I guess.

If the doors are closed over night then issue wristbands to the over nighters before the doors are opened in the morning to help prevent queue jumping.

Better organisation - no using the morning crowds to fill chutes after the line has condensed, move the line properly and be stricter on queue jumpers


Some more ideas I considered but ultimately decided wouldn't really work.

Seating area on wristband so the earlier you're in line the better your seat and you don't lose your place if you queue for a second wristband. I love this idea in theory and would love to see something like it put into effect. But I just don't think it's practical. It would encourage people to line up even earlier to try and get a better seat and enforcing it would be a nightmare for the staff and volunteers. As much as I understand the reasoning behind it and as much as I want it personally, I sadly don't think it would be workable in practice.


Wristband the night before. I'm fully aware this would just more the queue to earlier in the day. On the plus side that would be easier on families, allow people to get some sleep and shower between wristband distribution and show opening, and may reduce the queue slightly as it would make people choose between queuing for the next day's wristbands and missing a day of the actual Celebration. For this reason I don't think it should be done. ReedPop shouldn't do anything that could be seen as forcing fans to choose between queuing for wristbands and attending the actual Celebration. Orlando already showed many people will miss the end of their Celebration day (or more) by how early the line started for TLJ. But at least then you could get the full day in before queuing. If distribution was the evening rather than the next day, everyone would have been force to choose between Thursday at Celebration and queuing for TLJ wristbands. As much criticism as the system got last year, if this had happened it would have been so much worse

Wristband distribution done on badge collection - this would just move the problem forward by a few days, be extremely unfair to those who can't be there days early (especially those on single day badges), and would create added queues/work at badge collection as everyone who had already received their badges in the post would also be queuing at badge collection rather than just international fans.


So, yeah, no ideal solution. Every system has pros and cons and people are going to be disappointed as demand is greater than supply. And I've probably put way more thought into this than I should have. Personally I don't like the idea of a lottery or selling access so I think the best way is to tweak and improve the current system to try and make it easier for those with medical stickers or young children. That combined with the bigger capacity of the arena should hopefully be enough.

 

You should look into selling that post as a novel.

 

Haha, yeah it did get a bit long!

 

If they do something like a 50/50 lottery, then I could see other panels than IX also requiring an overnight to get in.

 

Yeah, my big concern with 50/50, whether lottery or something else, is that it will push everyone else to queue even earlier.

Let's be honest, even with the arena having more than double Orlando's capacity, people will still base when they line up on their Orlando experience. So if you add to that 50% of the seats being gone in advance, people will react accordingly. Even though 50% of the arena is more than the full capacity of Orlando's main stage, people will panic and think they have to be there even earlier.

Add to that, without pre-registration your lottery win (or whatever) can't be linked to your badge in advance. Unless they do actual physical passes that you need ID to collect on site (seems unlikely but possible I guess), there would be very little to stop people selling their lottery wins which would very likely add to the sense of panic and people lining up even earlier.

The big thing for me is Celebration isn't NYCC. NYCC has some great panels, but nothing approaching the level of the big Hall H or Celebration panels. Basically nothing that people queue over night for. So the system isn't designed with that in mind and has the benefit of guests being pre-registered to make setting up RFID much easier. They can't just copy that system and expect it to work.

Honestly, I don't think they will. I think tweaking the existing system is more likely. They've mentioned new tech before so they may switch to RFID instead of wristbands, but that can work on site as pre-registration is no longer required. It would be like the other 50% of NYCC capacity, where you scan your badge rather than get a wristband.