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PT Cool Parallel Ring Theory Found Between AOTC and ESB

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darkslayer, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    [​IMG]

    I never noticed this before, great job putting this together - credit goes to "Star Wars Ring Theory." Thought you guys would appreciate seeing it.
     
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  2. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 28, 2015
    "Impressive....most impressive."

    Cool find. I never made that connection before. George Lucas is a film poet.
     
  3. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 9, 2001
    That's awesome!

    Time to look for more...
     
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  4. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 9, 2001
    Hey wait a minute. Rey falls through a hole in The Last Jedi.
     
  5. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    This is the prequel forum mate. ;)
     
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  6. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 9, 2001
    Sure, but since we are comparing trilogies I wanted to point out that unilke some other parallels this one is a three-parter.
     
  7. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    We pointed this out a long time ago. "Terrible pain" almost rhymes with "failure at the cave".
     
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  8. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 9, 2001
    The parallel/ring effect isn't preserved regarding the Yoda reaction in TLJ because when *** comes out of the cave she immediately talks to **** ***.
     
  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Watch your language :p

    On the other hand, her lightsaber doesn't come out until Kylo has disappeared and she's fighting Luke, so you might see the corresponding scenario in TLJ as a more drawn out thing. And less direct as a mirror image than the Anakin/Luke parallel, since Rey doesn't decapitate anyone and Yoda doesn't show up to react to that specific event (though later on, he does indirectly acknowledge that Rey just made a mistake).
    Perhaps Luke should be considered the Yoda equivalent here and him watching the Falcon take off mirrors Yoda's reactions.

    One final thought: AOTC has the hut, TESB has the cave... and TLJ has both.
     
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  10. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    I don’t hate the prequel trilogy, but I get a very Room 237 vibe from ring theory.
     
  11. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    The ring theory is solid, if you ask me. The evidence on Mike Klimo's site is overwhelming and there is no doubt in my mind that GL was entirely conscious of this when he made this trilogy. It's just impossible to unsee and I don't see the point in trying to deny it. The ring composition is there and it was deliberately created.
     
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  12. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    Meh. It just proves that he likes certain kinds of shots. It’s actually quite common for film directors to reuse some of their favorite shots.









    We also know that Lucas is fond of throwing cute little Easter eggs into his films, such as the E.T. cameo or his recurring use of the number 1138.

    Therefore, I really don’t buy into the idea that Lucas was secretly using some sort of brilliant chiastic structure.
     
  13. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2014
    It's not just similar shots. It's similar sequences with similar themes to the other movies. Also notice the protagonist is on opposite sides of the screen, so there is a mirror image with the composition. Also Anakin / Darth Vader is in the same place in both compositions.
     
  14. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    We know that Lucas used numerous shots from other movies, as well as his own. Lots of dialogue and visual stuff is repeated endlessly, in ways you might not have noticed yet. Before "Ring Theory", people like myself were discovering the patterns. This article is a great starting point. http://www.mstrmnd.com/log/1241
    There's definitely tricky things going on in the movies.
     
  15. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    ^ What they said. ^
    Have you read Mike Klimo's entire essay? This goes way beyond GL liking certain kinds of shots. It concerns the narrative structures of the films, which mirror and invert each other in ways that are far too specific to be coincidental side effects of GL's style (You also have to remember that he didn't direct TESB or ROTJ, yet he repeatedly mirrors shots from those movies at the corresponding points in the ring composition (as in the case illustrated in the OP)).
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  16. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    "Stay here" is the most obvious dialogue/plot pattern going on. That's a good place to start. I was pleased to see the ST continue the tradition right off the bat with Poe and BB-8. Watch this video when you have the time too. It's not the best for in-movie patterns (which are more fun to find on your own anyway), but it does a great job pointing out the many references to other films.
     
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  17. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    Again, directors typically like to revisit certain themes. Hitchcock has his wrongfully accused men, Spielberg has his absentee fathers, Kubrick repeatedly revisited the theme of dehumanization, Scorsese likes to make movies about toxic masculinity, Bergman used film as a therapeutic means of expressing his own grappling with faith. Hell, even Michael Bay has ideas, themes and images he likes to revisit (as stupid and puerile as they may be).

    Moreover, Lucas is revisiting similar themes within the same damn series. Yeah, Lucas is an auteur, and Star Wars revisits certain themes, ideas and images across generations. Big whoop.
     
  18. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    Are you sure you know what sort of thing is being discussed? It's not just themes. It's images. The MF's targeting computer screen is the *same shape* as the TIE-Fighter. The Kamino Saber Dart has the same shape as the Jedi Temple spires. The enclosure on Exagol is shaped like the Jawa sandcrawler. It goes on and on.
     
  19. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    I know what chiasmus is. I can do it, too. “He went to the country, to the town went she.” It’s a superficially appealing theory, I’ll admit. Return of the Jedi has an extended plot detour on Tatooine where they free Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt. Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace has an extended plot detour on Tatooine where they free Anakin Skywalker from slavery. The Empire Strikes Back has Han and Princess Leia fall in love while hiding from the Galactic Empire. Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones has Anakin and Padmé Amidala fall in love while hiding from assassins. The original Star Wars has a duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader where Vader kills Obi-Wan. Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith has a duel between Obi-Wan and Vader where Obi-Wan disfigures Vader and leaves him for dead.

    However, I can point to just as many counter examples that disprove the idea that Lucas used a chiastic structure. In the 1st SW, Luke Skywalker used the Force to blow up the Death Star. In SW99, some combination of luck and the Force allows Anakin to blow up the droid control ship. In SW3, the Emperor tries goading Luke into killing Vader, but Luke refuses, saying that “I am a Jedi like my father before me.” In SW2005, the Emperor successfully goads Anakin into killing Count Dooku, which Anakin immediately regrets saying, “It’s not the Jedi way.” In the 1st SW, Luke leaves Tatooine and joins Obi-Wan to become a Jedi, but Obi-Wan is only able to train Luke briefly before Vader kills him. In SW99, Anakin leaves Tatooine and joins Qui-Gon Jinn to become a Jedi, but Qui-Gon is only able to train Anakin briefly before Darth Maul kills him. In SW2, Yoda initially refuses to train Luke, citing his age, before finally relenting under pressure from Obi-Wan. In SW99, Yoda initially refuses to allow Anakin’s training, citing his age, before finally relenting under pressure from Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. I could name countless other examples, but you get the point.

    Again, I don’t hate the prequel trilogy. I just don’t think that George Lucas used a chiastic structure…and you will NEVER convince me that SW is an art film. My counter-theory is that George Lucas is simply an auteur,
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  20. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    I wasn't asking that, and that wasn't really my point, but OK.
     
  21. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    Fair enough. I’d also like to add that, while I’m lukewarm towards the 1999 and 2002 films, I actually think the 2005 film is great, and it’s my 3rd favorite SW film.
     
  22. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Yes, there are obvious and intentional similarities in the stories of the trilogies as experienced from beginning to end (Anakin and Luke do go through mirroring journeys after all), but, as the ring theory proves, the narrative and visual framework of GL's trilogies is a clear inversion. Visually, TPM and ROTJ are each other's mirror images. As are ROTS and ANH (where the order of events, from a visual framework point of view, is even inverted (as is the case with AOTC and TESB)).
    There is an undeniable circular motion going on here, with the galaxy gradually descending to hit rock bottom in the middle of the story and then beginning it's ascent on the other side to finally return to the starting point - and this circular motion is narrated visually throughout, by use of similar environments, colors, scenarios and shots at corresponding points in the ring structure.

    That's fine by me :)
     
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  23. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    Yes, I know what chiasmus is. “He went to the country, to the town went she.” You still haven’t convinced me that Lucas used a chiastic structure.

    Again, this really reminds me of Room 237. I have a counter-theory. George Lucas is a filmmaker whose individual style and complete control over all elements of production give a film its personal and unique stamp. I’m a fan of Occam’s Razor, and that explanation satisfies it far more than a chiastic structure does…but what do I know? I’m just a philistine with an opinion.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    I don't have to convince you. The ring structure is there whether you want to see it or not.
     
  25. ThePhilistineCritic

    ThePhilistineCritic Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Apr 1, 2020
    You’re reaching and grasping at straws, whether you wanna believe it or not.