Could Anakin have beaten Mace

"Bull flaring his nostrills as if to say I will crush your little A$$."

lol! I loved that look too, was total bada$$

 

anakin beats mace, providing he doesnt start his whining like usual

 

Not true. He only says that he is trying to destroy Mace when he uses his lightning. Yes, Mace overpowered Palpatine, but there is little to suggest that Palpatine was not holding back. Anakin was still conflicted. Had Anakin arrived with Mace already dead, he would just run away again. Palpatine wanted Anakin to believe the Jedi were taking over. Once Anakin walks in a sees more-or-less that in action, Palpatine can stop holding back and he unleashes all his power "becoming a well of dark side energy", hence the drastic change (both physical and personality wise) between pre and post-fight Palpatine.

 

The Mace - Sidious duel's difficult to assess because we don't know exactly the extent to which Sidious was holding back and when. Even if he was holding back, we don't know how Mace would've dealt with him had he not been holding back. As I said earlier in the thread, because Mace fights so little in the films, he's a hard one to evaluate.

 

This is an easy question to answer.

Anakin would have won. Not because he's a better fighter, but because there's no way Palpatine would just sit back and watch. He'd have stepped in and fought Mace with Anakin in a heartbeat.

 

That is true, but clamness and and wisdom are part of a fight? Its not just quick movement and attack (Episode 2 anakin rushed to dooku) But you have to be smart, use disernment, Mace had that more than obiwan (And if i do recall correctly jango did lose his jetpack in episode 2 also when fighting obiwan on kamino?) after all mace was one of the heads (out if 2 or 3) of the council, noted for his wisdom along side yoda.

As i mentioned earlier, Mace beat Palpatine- Obiwan beat anakin- obiwan was as i quote yoda "stong enough you are not" -- Mace beat Palp, Obiwan cant, therefore mace is stronger (and wiser might i add) Obiwan beat anakin, mace inturn being stronger than obiwan would also defeat anakin. Yes the dark side is powerful but the light side is stronger, a point that many dont seem to grasp. Yoda blocked all of dookus attacks in episode 2 - obiwan defeats maul with only the lightsaide of the force, and in the new movie yoda won the lightning hold (fighting palpatin if you know what scene im taling about) with the force (light side) - as you look in his eyes.

I havent been on in a while so if i repeateed anything sorry,

Yes sidious would have interfeared, but if it was just anakin vs mace.. who would have won?

And about Palp holding back:

And then if you just ask the question Who is stroner mace or yoda? most would say yoda, am i correct.
But if yoda is stronger and mace is weaker then yoda would beat palp if mace can, but did yoda? no. So that would lead the question what Palp holding back? or was he really trying and mace is stronger than yoda?

So your question of "Did palp hold back?" can only be anwered if we know who is stronger and better is duals, yoda or mace.

Then you need the question Who is strnger Mace or Obiwan?
I personaly would say mace (He defeated jango, without jetpack, and obiwan didnt, without jet pack on kamino- rember he lost it) If the answer is obiwan, then their is a possibility of anakin beating mace, if the answer is mace than mace would definatly win is a duel with anakin

 

I want to clarify something that keeps comming up here. First of all, Anakin is supposed to be on the same level as Mace at the end of the movie (level 9). I don't generally care for outside quotes, but considering how easily Anakin defeated Dooku, that assesment seems to make sense.

Secondly, and more importantly: Anger gives a sith MORE power. It is not a weakness, they thrive on it. I think we have been so conditioned by jedi teachings from 5 out of the 6 movies that many of us have no idea how the sith work. It's true that anger and hatred will detiorate you over time, but in the immediate it gives you overwhelming power. Anger and hate only affect jedi in a negative way because the jedi are trained to fight differently.

"The sith really on their passion for their strength." - Anakin

"You have hatred, you have anger, but you do not use them." - Dooku

"Yes, I can feel your anger, it gives you FOCUS, makes you STRONGER." - Palpatine

"Release your anger, only your HATRED can destroy me." - Darth Vader.

I know I am only reiterating what another poster said, but it seems like everybody ignored him. Anyway, if Anakin and Mace were to fight, Anakin's hatred of Mace would be an advantage, not a liability. In the Dooku duel, Anakin released his anger and defeated Dooku easily. He has more hatred for Mace, considering that, I don't think Mace would survive.

 

Yeah, that's true calmness and wisdom are part of a fight. That's my point excactly which is why Obi-Wan would do better against Anakin than Mace would have. Obi is considered "as wise as Master Windu" plus the fact that he knows Anakin much better - which would give Obi an advantage.

Jango loosing his Jetpack in the Kamino fight is not the same thing. After Jango looses his Jetpack, Obi has no Lightsaber. In the Mace Windu fight it's Mace with Lightsaber vs. Jango with no working Jetpack.

 

What about the Obiwan - Vader duel? Anakin had become a Sith by then and yet his anger (combined with his ego) led him to make a horrendous error of judgment and lose.

 

Yes that is unfair chances, the only way to disifer this topic would be to ask the questions that i last posted (edited):

 

But your missing the point of the sith saying this, in all of these quotes the sith were pursuading and trying to make anakin or someone else use anger, and if anger is stronger why did yoda win that lightning hold with two hands against palpatine, palpatine was useing hate and anger he was over powered by the weaker you say, the ones the dont use anger or hatred.

 

Yeah, I agree that Anakin would have beat Mace. Not necesarily in a flat out deul but rather something underhand or even Palpatines intervention.

 

thats is because mace would have won in a flat out duel.

 

If Anakin were more in control of his emtions in combat he would be almost invincible he would be a focused killing machine,but the fact is that Anakin is an emotional wreck thats why he turns in the first place and thats how Obi-wan beats him,but overall i think Anakin is stronger.

 

Yeah agreed, but given the circumstances Mace would have been served because of the very fact that it was not a flat out deul.

 

Mace was the second most powerful Jedi, and had years and years of knowledge, expertise and experience. Anakin may have been almost as powerful in terms of brute force, but he didn't have the other attributes. They are equally important. Mace would defeat Anakin, but not lightly...

 

Its very close like someone said earlier NG said they were both 9's but I dont think Mace has nearly enough speed to keep up with Anakin, that palps mace duel wasnt very fast and Palps might have even let Mace win,I think its a very very tough fight.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, not the Palps let Windu win, nonono!! I can't bear it! It hurts my eyes and head!! aaahrg...

Speed is nothing if you aren't precise... speed is nothing if you can't time it... Mace was supposed to be an amazing fighter, Anakin was as well - but Anakin was too unexperienced. Mace would win because of his experience, and because of his skills.

Anakin had a lot to learn - I have said it before, and will say it again - In ANH he admits that he was "but the learner"... too many people have forgotten about the OT I fear

 

Mace was not more powerful than Anakin, and i don't think he could beat Kenobi either, Kenobi would find some way to win, and hes better with the sword from what we have seen.

 

In relation to the anger thing:

1. I think anger hastens a person's turn to the dark side and increases their power when using the dark side. I don't think it necessarily makes them more powerful than a light side user. Yoda at least matches Sidious in a straight out force-use battle in ROTS.

2. Anger may increase power, but it doesn't necessarily halp in the execution of that power. Pre-suit Vader's the perfect example. In any duel, no matter how powerful / angry a person is, they need to be able to exercise controlled agression. In ROTS Anakin's aggression is uncontrolled when he fights against Obiwan and this leads to impulsiveness and poor judgment.

 

Yes yes but not in this scenario...palpatine would have helped and therefore anakin would have beat Mace ultimatley

 

Actually, the first quote is Anakin explaining why the sith are selfish, "the sith rely on their passion for their strength." More importantly, when Anakin does what Dooku tells him to do, he wins.

The darkside gives you a lot of power, in a much shorter period of time, but eventually, the light side will win out. Yes, Yoda MATCHED Palpatine's power, but he had been training for 800 years, versus Palpatines 70. I think that's the clearest illustration that the darkside can give you an incredible amount of strength in a very short period of time. But I never said the darkside was stronger. All I said was that the sith use anger and hatred, the jedi use peace and serenity. Ergo, you can not say Anakin's anger would be a liability when he relies on it for power.

 

winning a duel means on your own NOT to rely on external help

 

Sorry foreign sidious but the title of the thread is could Anakin have beat Mace NOT would Anakin beat Mace in a deul. Therefore yes Anakin would have beat Mace even though it may have only been with Sidious' intervention.

 

Obi Wan is the trump card in all of this. If he had not defeated Anakin I think everyone would be saying Anakin could destroy Mace. Obi Wan won for two reasons. 1. He has spent 13 years with Anakin and knows him very well. 2. Obi Wan is smarter than both Mace and Anakin put together. It was not only that Anakin drove Obi Wan back, but Kenobi fought defensively, he fought smart.

I still don't understand what the Mace/Sidious debate is for. Mace beat Sidious in a duel. Sidious played like he lost his power then blasts Mace out the window.

I don't think Windu would have fought Anakin like Obi Wan did, and ultimately Anakin would beat Mace. But that is not an absolute. I've said it before that you can take the top guys from the films...Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Kenobi, Maul, Dooku, Sidious, etc, all of these guys are in each others league. Obi Wan beat Anankin yet Anakin beat Dooku, and Dooku had beaten Obi Wan twice and did so easily.